What are your thoughts on Glen Gulutzan's system?

[Tailgator]

If the system is so obscure/complicated that it makes pros look like morons for this many games, either the system or the coach (or both) don't belong here.

[DeluxeMoustache]

During training camp it looked like the plan for breakouts was to have less of a reliance on stretch pass, having forwards back and starting as a unit, so the puck carrier has options.

Maybe this is what they have tried but their transition has been slow, it has killed the speed with their uncertainty, and the other team has more time to get set in their defensive structure.

Zone entries on the PP have obviously been horrible. I agree with the idea that the D should carry more. In the Nashville game tonight, (at even strength) you could see Josi building speed through the neutral zone, dishing to one of his forwards at the blue line who immediately placed it behind the opposing D, while Josi continues with speed, passes their D and picks it up. Any of the Flames top 3 D should be able to do this but instead they dish to Johnny and stand there while he tries to beat 2-4 guys and turns it over, or try to carry it over and then make a pass, while in the middle of the wall set up by the opposing team.

Gulutzan should be watching tape of other teams. There are many teams who have figured out different ways to gain the opposing zone.

[MisterJoji]

I wonder if the almost comeback that took place in the 3rd was a result of the system or of abandoning the system? I seem to remember Brent being angry that his system wasn't being used after winning, which is utterly stupid. I admit I stopped watching after the 1st period crapfest so did it appear that the 2 goals were a result of Gulutzan's system or did it look more like reverting back to the stretch passes of Hartley's system?

[Alpine Fisher]

Can someone explain Gully's system with a drawing or a diagram?

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

I wonder if the almost comeback that took place in the 3rd was a result of the system or of abandoning the system? I seem to remember Brent being angry that his system wasn't being used after winning, which is utterly stupid. I admit I stopped watching after the 1st period crapfest so did it appear that the 2 goals were a result of Gulutzan's system or did it look more like reverting back to the stretch passes of Hartley's system?

I think Brents comments are irrelevant. The only players still here from his era is Giordano, Stajan, Bouma (who was a rookie then), Brodie (also a rookie) and Backlund (sophomore). I can't see Giordano and Stajan leading the pack to carry out really dated and lasting practice

[hockey.modern]

Originally Posted by Alpine Fisher

Can someone explain Gully's system with a drawing or a diagram?

Here's the "Y player drop passes puck to X player at the neutral zone" who has to try and deke through the opposition to enter the zone for the PP

[Fire]

Originally Posted by hockey.modern

Here's the "Y player drop passes puck to X player at the neutral zone" who has to try and deke through the opposition to enter the zone for the PP

They did the same entry with Hartley last year as well.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

I think Brents comments are irrelevant. The only players still here from his era is Giordano, Stajan, Bouma (who was a rookie then), Brodie (also a rookie) and Backlund (sophomore). I can't see Giordano and Stajan leading the pack to carry out really dated and lasting practice

I didn't mean to imply that the current players are purposefully tuning the coach out, I just remember Brent being an idiot about that kind of stuff. Just thinking that using Hartley's system for the last 3 years probably becomes a kind of muscle memory. I'm sure it's hard to try a learn a new system and have it just become natural after only 5 games. Which is why I was wondering if those 2 goals in the 3rd looked like "Hartley goals."

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

I didn't mean to imply that the current players are purposefully tuning the coach out, I just remember Brent being an idiot about that kind of stuff. Just thinking that using Hartley's system for the last 3 years probably becomes a kind of muscle memory. I'm sure it's hard to try a learn a new system and have it just become natural after only 5 games. Which is why I was wondering if those 2 goals in the 3rd looked like "Hartley goals."

I dunno. Hockey isn't like football where there's endless plays, audibles to memorize and blitzes. It's the same formation to start plays (ie after the face), and pretty much the same formation to defend (ie, defenseman down low and forwards defend the points) as well as offensively too, since defenseman are always at the point and centreman are usually ones in the crease.

If maybe you'd see coaches try weird things like the defensemen taking the offensive face off and the winger is at point on their offwing, I could see it. The only time we really see that stuff is on power plays.

These guys are all playing the same stuff throughout their whole career

[RedWinger89]

My thoughts are he will be fired by mid season if this keeps up. Was kind of an underwhelming hire to begin with.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

I dunno. Hockey isn't like football where there's endless plays, audibles to memorize and blitzes. It's the same formation to start plays (ie after the face), and pretty much the same formation to defend (ie, defenseman down low and forwards defend the points) as well as offensively too, since defenseman are always at the point and centreman are usually ones in the crease.

If maybe you'd see coaches try weird things like the defensemen taking the offensive face off and the winger is at point on their offwing, I could see it. The only time we really see that stuff is on power plays.

These guys are all playing the same stuff throughout their whole career

Yeah, it's really more about line-ups, line matching, bench management, motivating, making game decisions (i.e. when to trap, when apply pressure, when to pull players or juggle lines, etc...) dealing with officials and practices than it is about systems. Most teams can apply various systems depending on the situation and what type of players they have.

If you have "a system" and you try to wedge players into it, you end up with a Gilbert/B.Sutter situation where players skate around doing the wrong thing at the wrong time.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Fire

They did the same entry with Hartley last year as well.

They did it better last year.

The point of the drop pass is to create gaps when the defensive players put on the brakes. Under Hartley, we did the drop pass from the red line to the blue line. Under Gulutzan, more often than not it has been blue line to blue line. So while the defence suddenly halts, it does so standing on its own blue line. Meanwhile, our entire attack has to stop quickly to avoid going offside. End result: defenceman carrying the puck has to either get through seven guys to gain the zone, or dump it in and hope the team recovers despite a 3v4 situation.

[smiggy77]

Originally Posted by hockey.modern

Here's the "Y player drop passes puck to X player at the neutral zone" who has to try and deke through the opposition to enter the zone for the PP

Yeah, this is what they did last season.

I did notice during the Carolina game that they were employing a similar method but rather than entering through center ice, they would go off the sideboards and either do a quick chip and recover or a dump to the opposite winger.

I did notice that this method worked well last season when the drop pass to the forward would happen between center ice and offensive blue line, where as this season, it looks like they're doing the drop all the way from before our blue line, giving the opposition enough time to either angle or hold up the puck carrier.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Tailgator

If the system is so obscure/complicated that it makes pros look like morons for this many games, either the system or the coach (or both) don't belong here.

Both

[AcGold]

To me it looks mostly psychological. Some of the more talented players on our team stopped playing as a team. Until they stop doing that there's no way we win, the NHL is insanely talented now and one guy can't do everything. It's probably more the system of how he coaches as opposed to what he's coaching.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by AcGold

To me it looks mostly psychological. Some of the more talented players on our team stopped playing as a team. Until they stop doing that there's no way we win, the NHL is insanely talented now and one guy can't do everything. It's probably more the system of how he coaches as opposed to what he's coaching.

It is both the message being delivered and who is delivering. If this goes beyond 10 games he will lose the room. And i won't be shocked at that at all. Same thing happened in Dallas

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

It is both the message being delivered and who is delivering. If this goes beyond 10 games he will lose the room. And i won't be shocked at that at all. Same thing happened in Dallas

Source?

[DeluxeMoustache]

http://www.defendingbigd.com/2013/5/...t-paul-jerrard

In two seasons, one that was cut short to just 48 games because of the lockout, Gulutzan had a 66-57-9 record with the Stars missing the postseason both years. Each season, the Stars were in control of their postseason fate with just five games remaining and both seasons lost those final five games. The Stars were also mired by a historically bad power play last season, as well as continued difficulites on defense and in transition.

Just as it was with Nieuwendyk, the biggest issue with Gulutzan is that the Stars never truly had an identity as a hockey team while he was coach. There just didn't appear to be the sort of inherent structure a team needs to have to fall back on, and perhaps he just did not work as well with veteran players as would be expected of a NHL coach.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Anduril

Source?

Source..
I' think you should just sit back in misery watching Gulutzan turn this team into a lot less than they should be until Treliving has no choice but to fire his stupid butt headed decision to hire this clown. Not only hiring this goofy coach but gift wrapping Dallas Gulutzan the job.
And I will say to you in particular when his is fired .... still need the source?
Source go look up his bleak blink of eye experience as an NHL Head Coach.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Source..
I' think you should just sit back in misery watching Gulutzan turn this team into a lot less than they should be until Treliving has no choice but to fire his stupid butt headed decision to hire this clown. Not only hiring this goofy coach but gift wrapping Dallas Gulutzan the job.
And I will say to you in particular when his is fired .... still need the source?
Source go look up his bleak blink of eye experience as an NHL Head Coach.

When you make a claim about Gulutzan "losing the room before in Dallas" and are challenged to back up those claims, providing material to support the claim is much more beneficial than making some blustery remark based on your feelings. As it stands his poor record isn't an indication of him losing the room in Dallas.


Edit: Reading the piece that DeluxeMoustache shared, both the author and some comments suggest that Gulutzan was in a rough situation as a rookie coach with the lockout and roster turnover.
I vaguely remember Hartley having a similar problem as well with being a new coach who could not make an impact in his first season as Flames coach. Hartley did however instill an identity in this team by the 2nd half of the 2nd season as head coach though judging by this board, fans have higher immediate expectations of Gulutzan out of the gate.