Free vs Paid Anti-Virus

[CroFlames]

Post #33 to be exact.

[psicodude]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Here you are arguing that AV is not effective at catching new viruses, fair enough.

Earlier though, you were arguing that an AV "makes it worse". Explain how using an AV is WORSE than not using one at all, if you please?

It makes people believe they are safe to do whatever they please on their computers because this software will be there to protect them. The AV software markets itself as the magic safety net, when in reality, it isn't. I still maintain that training people on how to be smart and diligent is far more effective than any technological solution.

If you could somehow convince people that their AV software is only going to catch 75% of the stuff out there and to not rely on it to protect their computers, then fine, use it. I just know people are lazy and will let their guards down knowing technology has their back.

[Igster]

Originally Posted by psicodude

Snip from the website you linked:



So basically, this website goes out and downloads 100,000 samples of KNOWN, PREVALENT viruses over several months and then runs AV software against it. This software people are paying for to protect them are only catching ~98% of KNOWN viruses that are already a few months old and have most likely been abandoned by the creator? This makes sense to you? The best part is that the majority of these programs are only slightly better than the stuff just built into Windows 8!

The point I was making is that being skeptical and very careful is just as effective. It may be going a little far to say that AV companies are committing fraud, but the truth is that current AV technology is always several steps behind malware coders. There is absolutely no way for these programs to stop something that they aren't already aware of. Like I said in my original post, it is a cat and mouse game.

The average computer user would be better served by investing in a really good backup solution and some detection/cleaning software.

Um, this was one recent test. Had you bothered to look at the web site and their other tests, you will see they test against 0 day malware as well, which I also stated in my response to you.

You are wrong. AV software helps protect you and that's all there is to it. Even arguing about new malware, I'm sorry but I clean up systems all the time with old malware that's been around forever. Systems that are not protected properly. People don't always stumble into 0 day malware. And even when they do, some protection is better than nothing.

Oh and..please have a read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristic_analysis

http://internet-security-suite-revie...etection-.html

Many AV companies employ heuristic testing methods. You know not of what you speak.

Also, since you didn't bother to look, here it is for you:

http://www.av-comparatives.org/wp-co..._201503_en.pdf

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by psicodude

It makes people believe they are safe to do whatever they please on their computers because this software will be there to protect them. The AV software markets itself as the magic safety net, when in reality, it isn't. I still maintain that training people on how to be smart and diligent is far more effective than any technological solution.

If you could somehow convince people that their AV software is only going to catch 75% of the stuff out there and to not rely on it to protect their computers, then fine, use it. I just know people are lazy and will let their guards down knowing technology has their back.

Well I think being smart on the internet coupled with an AV was implied in the spirit of this thread. No one is advocating to get a free AV program and then go hog wild on the internet downloading .exe files from unknown sources or clicking links from Nigerian princes.

Practice safe interneting, plus protect yourself from viruses and mal/spyware.I think I practice pretty safe internet, but lo and behold, I had a few questionable files on my rig when I uninstalled McAfee and run spy/malware + a new antivirus.

Furthermore, no one is advocating that antivirus programs will catch 100% of threats, but they do a capture a large chunk. And that is better than nothing.

[psicodude]

You've missed the point again. (Sorry, this is @Igster)

The comparisons you keep referring to show that AV software is 95% effective, at best. That doesn't take into account things like out of date definitions, broken software, etc. So you are telling people to pay for and then count on software that will work 9 times out of 10? That one time that it fails may end up costing them hundreds of dollars. That makes sense to you?

Your story of cleaning systems all of the time that have old malware is a perfect example of everything that is wrong with the AV industry. They give you a few hundred bucks to clean their computers and then you install some software for them. Then 6 months goes by, the software isn't working right or just misses something because it is only 95% effective. Now they are back in your office giving you more money again and can't understand what happened. Why don't we focus on breaking the cycle? Educate people! The most effective defence against malware is the user! Maybe if you explained to them the behaviour that has led them here, they will stop doing it in the future.

[Igster]

Originally Posted by psicodude

You've missed the point again. (Sorry, this is @Igster)

The comparisons you keep referring to show that AV software is 95% effective, at best. That doesn't take into account things like out of date definitions, broken software, etc. So you are telling people to pay for and then count on software that will work 9 times out of 10? That one time that it fails may end up costing them hundreds of dollars. That makes sense to you?

Your story of cleaning systems all of the time that have old malware is a perfect example of everything that is wrong with the AV industry. They give you a few hundred bucks to clean their computers and then you install some software for them. Then 6 months goes by, the software isn't working right or just misses something because it is only 95% effective. Now they are back in your office giving you more money again and can't understand what happened. Why don't we focus on breaking the cycle? Educate people! The most effective defence against malware is the user! Maybe if you explained to them the behaviour that has led them here, they will stop doing it in the future.

Do you read posts you are replying to or do you just type your new post? Have a feeling it's the latter.

I have clearly stated people SHOULDN'T pay for AV software. There are great free alternatives that I have posted on numerous occasions in this thread, mentioning Panda on a number of occasions. 95% effective. If I gave you 95% odds on almost anything, I'm pretty sure you would take it. Well, not you, but anyone else obviously. You stated people don't need AV software. I stated you are WRONG. 95% odds with 0 day malware in some cases and 100% protection in a number of cases against old malware.

As for cleaning peoples' computers, Yes, I stated "improperly protected computers" - maybe friends of yours? People with crappy AV programs or people with NO AV programs at all. After I clean their systems, install Panda, I don't hear from them again. Hmmmm...shocker.

[DoubleF]

I feel like if we modified the wording slightly in some of the last few pages, we would see a conversation that closely resembles a conversation about abstinence.

Do not use protection! Use purity methods instead!

Sorry, sorry, just poking fun.

[Inglewood Jack]

snow tires won't prevent people from driving like maniacs, therefore snow tires are completely useless

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

snow tires won't prevent people from driving like maniacs, therefore snow tires are completely useless

Do all-seasons = MS Defender/Security Essentials?

If so, I'm guilty!

[psicodude]

Originally Posted by Igster

Do you read posts you are replying to or do you just type your new post? Have a feeling it's the latter.

I have clearly stated people SHOULDN'T pay for AV software. There are great free alternatives that I have posted on numerous occasions in this thread, mentioning Panda on a number of occasions. 95% effective. If I gave you 95% odds on almost anything, I'm pretty sure you would take it. Well, not you, but anyone else obviously. You stated people don't need AV software. I stated you are WRONG. 95% odds with 0 day malware in some cases and 100% protection in a number of cases against old malware.

As for cleaning peoples' computers, Yes, I stated "improperly protected computers" - maybe friends of yours? People with crappy AV programs or people with NO AV programs at all. After I clean their systems, install Panda, I don't hear from them again. Hmmmm...shocker.

Oh good, we have reached the personal attacks part of the thread.

This industry (which you are clearly part of) has made billions of dollars over the last three decades and has provided little to no benefit. People happily pay their $80 per year and still get infected. The free versions are marketing tactics, pure and simple. Their only reason for existing is to fool people into paying for the extra features. Or are you going to argue that these companies do this for free out of the goodness of their hearts?

It's obvious that this is going nowhere. I stand by my opinion that education, knowledge, and a couple of browser plug-ins are not only better than AV software, but they are actually free. Or, you could visit a computer repair shop a couple of times per year and donate a few hundred bucks to them. Keep installing the free AV software and drumming up that repeat business!

[AcGold]

^ I run 100% free AV programs and never have a single pop-up, banner ad or nuisance. Maybe you just don't know what you're doing.

Originally Posted by Iggy City

Malwarebytes seems like bloatware to me. I hate the constant Upgrade Now! ads and popups.

If it's free, show the free vs. paid version comparison once at the start and then #### off with the annoying banners. That's a gear grinder for me haha

Like I said, run periodically. Meaning don't have it run on startup. Never seen a single pop-up ad and it's caught and removed threats. Learn to PC bro.

[zamler]

I think all AV apps suck to be honest, all of them. Malwarebytes is a good piece of software in a relative sense I scan with it occasionally/when I feel like it. Do frequent backups using something like Macrium Reflect something goes horribly wrong restore the image and be happy.

[AcGold]

Yes no individual AV is perfect but with the right combination you can be pretty much 100% safe unless you are purposefully downloading rootkits.

[Igster]

Originally Posted by psicodude

Oh good, we have reached the personal attacks part of the thread.

Not at all. Simple seemed like you were not even reading my responses. Your responses sure seemed that way anyway. Nothing personal involved.

Originally Posted by psicodude

This industry (which you are clearly part of) has made billions of dollars over the last three decades and has provided little to no benefit. People happily pay their $80 per year and still get infected. The free versions are marketing tactics, pure and simple. Their only reason for existing is to fool people into paying for the extra features. Or are you going to argue that these companies do this for free out of the goodness of their hearts?

No, I do not work in the industry. I pay attention. Again, free. I said quite clearly that paying for AV is silly. Panda is free. Yes, there is the occasional pop up reminding me there is a full version, but I don't care, the free version does a great job and I'm good. It's a single pop up once in a while. Marketing tactics? Well, if that is marketing and a tactic, it's poor because I simply close the window and move along thanks.

Originally Posted by psicodude

It's obvious that this is going nowhere. I stand by my opinion that education, knowledge, and a couple of browser plug-ins are not only better than AV software, but they are actually free. Or, you could visit a computer repair shop a couple of times per year and donate a few hundred bucks to them. Keep installing the free AV software and drumming up that repeat business!

And I stand by my opinion that you are wrong. People can easily have FREE PROTECTION that will help them with the majority of the crap that is out there. Why you wouldn't install a FREE AV is beyond me.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Igster

Ugh. Really?

Some AV's are so heavy and basically take over your system, create toolbars, have extra stuff added to your browsers for surfing, etc. I just don't get why people pay for that.

Like I said, completely free Panda. In AV testing it has performed much, much better at protecting than any paid AV and is light on the system.

Bitdefender is also very good, but the free version is not supported much and not updated much.

Have used Norton for over 10 years and has served me well. My latest computer is close to 6 years old and free of any viruses, trojans or malware.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Dion

Have used Norton for over 10 years and has served me well. My latest computer is close to 6 years old and free of any viruses, trojans or malware.

That doesn't mean it is a product worth paying for, especially the price of the Internet Security offering from Norton.

Edit: To further this, I would use Comodo Internet suite in a heartbeat over Norton's, even if they both cost the same. Comodo is free. This is what recommend to anyone I do work for that is current using MSSE, which is what I used to recommend before MS suggested that no one use it anymore.

edit2: To clarify, when you install the defaults need to be tweaked so it doesn't change your default browser etc, so you need to uncheck all those boxes. Also you need to tweak some settings by enabling game mode, and uninstalling GeekBuddy to eliminate all pop-ups. I would not recommend installing and using it at its default settings.

[Vulcan]

Bitdefender is also very good, but the free version is not supported much and not updated much.

I use Free Bitdefender on all my computers as well as my Nexus7. It's very unintrusive and seems to update regularly. This morning it says it was updated yesterday at 8:15 PM, so I don't see any problem.

One thing I like about Bitdefender besides it being effective is that it doesn't try to change my search engine, it doesn't add a toolbar, it doesn't try to install chrome and it doesn't try to block me from using a browser I like. All of these things have happened to me from other popular and recommended free anti-viruses.

[Igster]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I use Free Bitdefender on all my computers as well as my Nexus7. It's very unintrusive and seems to update regularly. This morning it says it was updated yesterday at 8:15 PM, so I don't see any problem.

The free English version of Bitdefender was abandoned for a while by the company. Perhaps they have started taking it more seriously then? This was from my previous experience with it and a lot of others on a security forum I visit once in a while.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Igster

The free English version of Bitdefender was abandoned for a while by the company. Perhaps they have started taking it more seriously then? This was from my previous experience with it and a lot of others on a security forum I visit once in a while.

Okay I guess that it updated just the other day was a coincidence as the last time Bitdefender updated before that was July 31. It hasn't been a problem for me and it is still top rated. I think that because it is cloud based, it doesn't rely on updating other than to update to a new version.

[Flames89]

Wanted to revive this. So it seems my Panda has expired and I can't seem to renew a free version. What are people using now?