04-11-2012, 12:15 PM
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#281
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis
Well lets see....
-Initially skewing the perception of both (pics Zimmerman in a jump suit, Trayvon as a younger kid)
-Outright lying/manipulating (NBC audio tapes)
-Not letting due process occur and reporting items before they've been confirmed by either the prosecutors office or police
Outside of that the media has done a bang up job.
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The media is a product of its audience
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04-11-2012, 12:22 PM
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#282
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
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Not disputing that at all. They know what drives the needle and sadly it is their job first and foremost to increase ratings. Reporting the news is secondary.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
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04-11-2012, 12:28 PM
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#283
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Not the one...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis
Well lets see....
-Initially skewing the perception of both (pics Zimmerman in a jump suit, Trayvon as a younger kid)
-Outright lying/manipulating (NBC audio tapes)
-Not letting due process occur and reporting items before they've been confirmed by either the prosecutors office or police
Outside of that the media has done a bang up job.
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I get that "the media" has spread to succomb to bias but if a judge-and-jury can't overcome initial reports from 24-hour news networks then there isn't much of a justice system to protect.
If not for "the media" there never would have been a trial anyway, nor any scrutiny of StandYourGround laws, ALEC, or racial expectations.
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04-11-2012, 12:36 PM
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#284
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
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Its just having sit in a jury-duty session (thankfully not chosen), they ask you tons of questions about "Are you aware of so and so's blah blah blah" and related. As soon as you answer yes you are usually disqualified by either the prosecution or the defense because they believe your patiallity has been effected. It may actually not, but the legal system is the way it is.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
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04-11-2012, 12:44 PM
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#285
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis
Its just having sit in a jury-duty session (thankfully not chosen), they ask you tons of questions about "Are you aware of so and so's blah blah blah" and related. As soon as you answer yes you are usually disqualified by either the prosecution or the defense because they believe your patiallity has been effected. It may actually not, but the legal system is the way it is.
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Unless you're in some bizarre jurisdiction where the parties are afforded an unlimited number of preemptory challenges that's simply not true. If jurors could be excluded solely on the basis of their knowledge of a media report on a matter we'd never have a jury seated in a high profile case again.
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04-11-2012, 12:51 PM
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#286
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
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I can only speak to my jury experience, but most people were thrown out for that reason. Perhaps they were simply looking for an excuse not to serve (like me!), but all I remember is anyone who had heard or knew of the case wasn't considered.
But this isn't the usual high profile case. This is an international high profile case at this point, ala Casey Anthony/OJ. Getting an impartial jury will be virtually impossible, let alone a grand jury to hear the facts.
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
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04-11-2012, 12:51 PM
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#287
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Not the one...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis
Its just having sit in a jury-duty session (thankfully not chosen), they ask you tons of questions about "Are you aware of so and so's blah blah blah" and related. As soon as you answer yes you are usually disqualified by either the prosecution or the defense because they believe your patiallity has been effected. It may actually not, but the legal system is the way it is.
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It strikes me as crass and lazy to impugn the integrity of hundreds of people for collective wrongdoing like "not waiting for due process."
"The media" has become far too easy of a target.
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04-11-2012, 01:13 PM
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#288
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
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http://news.yahoo.com/official-charg...184138994.html
Zimmerman likely to be charged tonight. I'm guessing the fiasco with his lawyers only expedited this.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
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04-11-2012, 01:19 PM
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#289
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis
I can only speak to my jury experience, but most people were thrown out for that reason. Perhaps they were simply looking for an excuse not to serve (like me!), but all I remember is anyone who had heard or knew of the case wasn't considered.
But this isn't the usual high profile case. This is an international high profile case at this point, ala Casey Anthony/OJ. Getting an impartial jury will be virtually impossible, let alone a grand jury to hear the facts.
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Excluding jurors for that reason, and that reason alone, isn't going to fly in pretty much any court room when pretty much the entire pool of potential jurors will have heard of the matter. Both sides will get a few challenges that they can use with no explanation (race based exclusions being the exception), but otherwise they'll have to satisfy the court that the person should be excluded. If that wasn't the case we'd have never gotten a jury for the OJ case. If you were sitting for a jury in a case that didn't have widespread coverage previous knowledge may be an adequate reason to dismiss a juror, there would be plenty to fill the spots.
It's a little different with the Grand Jury as there's no requirement to engage in the process, so you can essentially skip that step and still get to the same result by having the DA make the determination on whether to charge.
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04-11-2012, 02:06 PM
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#290
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
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Yup, you are 100% right on the grand jury process. And its especially irrelevant now that hes going to (likely) be charged. I'm curious what the charge would be, I'd guess involuntary manslaughter but who knows?
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
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04-11-2012, 02:08 PM
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#291
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Norm!
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Jay walking?
If there is a trial, its going to be a bloody gongshow.
I would expect that there will likely be a plea bargin with little to no time served.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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04-11-2012, 02:14 PM
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#292
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
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I'd imagine that yes, if theres a deal to be made with little to no jail time it will be. Especially with the potential for race riots if Zimmerman is found not guilty.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
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04-11-2012, 02:20 PM
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#293
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Took an arrow to the knee
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
I don't think there are any restriction to him traveling, he hasn't been charged, after the police investigation he was let go.
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I believe I read that the special prosecutor might "hurry up" and bring charges to bear against him quicker if they believe him to be a flight risk, since they don't want him making preparations to run while they dally before charging him. So while there are no restrictions against him right now, he can still "flee" if he believes they will be coming.
Though, now, his ex-lawyers are saying he's not a flight risk, and the special prosecutor will be pressing charges soon.
__________________
"An adherent of homeopathy has no brain. They have skull water with the memory of a brain."
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04-11-2012, 02:36 PM
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#294
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
Jay walking?
If there is a trial, its going to be a bloody gongshow.
I would expect that there will likely be a plea bargin with little to no time served.
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And the guy will get his own talk show afterwards...
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04-11-2012, 05:02 PM
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#295
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
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Wow, 2nd degree murder charges. Must think they have a pretty strong case.
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
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04-11-2012, 05:07 PM
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#296
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis
Wow, 2nd degree murder charges. Must think they have a pretty strong case.
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That surprises me, I think the onus of proof is very high in a second degree murder charge.
I guess you could theoretically argued that him carrying a gun would make it applicable as 2nd degree murder is without intent or planning.
I think they're going to have a hell of a time proving it and they're going to pay for laying an over zealous charge.
I would also think that there is no chance for a plea bargin since a guilty finding would result in a life sentence.
I think this is a big mistake and its politically motivated by public pressure.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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04-11-2012, 05:08 PM
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#297
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Norm!
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As an add on this is going to be a land mark case in terms of the self defense defense.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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04-11-2012, 05:09 PM
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#298
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
That surprises me, I think the onus of proof is very high in a second degree murder charge.
I guess you could theoretically argued that him carrying a gun would make it applicable as 2nd degree murder is without intent or planning.
I think they're going to have a hell of a time proving it and they're going to pay for laying an over zealous charge.
I would also think that there is no chance for a plea bargin since a guilty finding would result in a life sentence.
I think this is a big mistake and its politically motivated by public pressure.
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I haven't read any of the details, but I assume they haven't closed the door to him pleading guilty to a lesser charge.
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04-11-2012, 05:10 PM
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#299
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valo403
I haven't read any of the details, but I assume they haven't closed the door to him pleading guilty to a lesser charge.
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Maybe but if the prosecutor backs down on the charge in a plea bargin, the boys family and supporters will probably go ape.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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04-11-2012, 05:13 PM
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#300
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
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I still gotta believe this will end with a plea. Maybe something where he does 3-5 years
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