[Signing] McDavid signs extension: 8 years, 12.5M per.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I think comparing 1 player vs 2 players is hard.

I would say Would you rather have McDavid and Maroon at $14 million or Monahan and Gaudreau at $13 million? 57 goals and 85 assists in 163 games or 45 goals and 74 assists in 154 games? I don't know if Maroon will be back after this year or if his replacement will put up similar numbers but I am sure you will see value guys rotating in on the top line with McDavid.

Both are solid pairs and great first lines.

But Johnny and Mony are both already on their long term deals. Maroon isn't and after another year of riding shotgun with McDavid he's going to be due a huge raise from 1.5. Probably would get around 6 million on the open market. Then is Johhny/Mony at 12 million and McDavid/Maroon at 18 million. More cap problems for a GM with a history of poor cap management.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

But Johnny and Mony are both already on their long term deals. Maroon isn't and after another year of riding shotgun with McDavid he's going to be due a huge raise from 1.5. Probably would get around 6 million on the open market. Then is Johhny/Mony at 12 million and McDavid/Maroon at 18 million. More cap problems for a GM with a history of poor cap management.

Maroon was 27 with the Ducks and had a career high 11 goals before he was traded to the Oilers.

They don't need to pay Maroon 6M, as much as I'd love for that to happen, they'll find some other scrub for McDavid to turn into a 30 goal scorer.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Maroon was 27 with the Ducks and had a career high 11 goals before he was traded to the Oilers.

They don't need to pay Maroon 6M, as much as I'd love for that to happen, they'll find some other scrub for McDavid to turn into a 30 goal scorer.

Yup this. You offer Maroon something you can afford and walk away if he wants more.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Yup this. You offer Maroon something you can afford and walk away if he wants more.

The Oilers hope things work out this way, and maybe they do for the better. But it is not always just that easy to find s good fit for every high-end centre. Taylor Hall was not a great fit playing with McDavid. When the Sedins were the best offensive duo in hockey the only other winger with whom they were able to find any sustained success was Alexandre Burrows. This was for several years a big issue in Vancouver.

So, while in theory McDavid can turn virtually any player into a top line winger, it doesn't necessarily work out that way in the real world.

[TheFlamesVan]

I just like the Chicago, LA, Boston winning model,
over the Pittsburgh, Washington, now Edmonton winning model.

I don't want to have 1 guy on the team I cheer for, as incredible as he is. Would rather have a lineup of depth with multiple components adding to your success.

Just what I enjoy as a fan more.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Maroon was 27 with the Ducks and had a career high 11 goals before he was traded to the Oilers.

They don't need to pay Maroon 6M, as much as I'd love for that to happen, they'll find some other scrub for McDavid to turn into a 30 goal scorer.

Originally Posted by Weitz

Yup this. You offer Maroon something you can afford and walk away if he wants more.

Well you hope the next guy steps in and can score like Maroon. That's the problem, its a hope.

[dino7c]

What happens if McDavid comes out and has an 80 point season...honest question. I mean that is good for pretty much anyone in the league but going into this massive deal that has to be seen as massive failure.

[TheFlamesVan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

So, while in theory McDavid can turn virtually any player into a top line winger, it doesn't necessarily work out that way in the real world.

Exactly. If you look to Crosby as an example, it can be quite difficult to find someone to fill that role.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dino7c

What happens if McDavid comes out and has an 80 point season...honest question. I mean that is good for pretty much anyone in the league but going into this massive deal that has to be seen as massive failure.

Yeah they are not paying him for 80 points.

[Flash Walken]

Every team that ever does anything in the playoffs always has a guy who comes from out of nowhere to put together an epic post season. It's usually the only performance of the like in his career.

I think the key is about managing personalities and character as much as it is about talent.

It's sort of the same thing as the qualification for Elite. What do we base that on? Success, mostly.

The point isn't that the Hawks or the Kings of the Penguins have elite talent, or that they have abundant high quality depth, it's that the talent and the depth are in lock step together working for the same outcome. It's why a group of otherwise talented individuals can never get it together when it matters, and one of the reasons big acquisitions at the deadline can be so disruptive to an otherwise adept team.

Shean Donovan's 2004 season was a season for the ages, as was Lance Bouma's season 3 years ago.The missing ingredient for those teams was a mix of talent and depth, but the reason they got where they did was the cohesion of the group.

It doesn't have to be all roses but it has to be an organizational, top down philosophy.

The oilers haven't displayed anything resembling that since Sather was there.

[GGG]

^^ I disagree, I think seasons like Donovan's and Boumas happen every on every team. We assign meaning to them if they are successful and ignore it if they aren't.

[Enoch Root]

While it's great that McDavid can make a guy like Maroon a 30 goal scorer, the problem in a cap world is that, if he is constantly having to do that, the advantage of his superior skill is mitigated.

Comparing Gaudreau and Monahan, two great players, to McDavid, a generational player, plus a plug, evens things out. And the numbers quoted before bare that out. Going by memory (because it's a couple pages back) each pair got roughly 150 pts or whatever.

And that's why the cap is awesome. You draft a generational player? Great! Now you have to pay him $12.5M, so that costs you the equivalent of 2 great players. Evens things out.

And that's why so many people keep saying that simply getting a player like McDavid on your team, no longer means automatic cups. Because the cap is the great equalizer.

Chicago lucked out in their timing by getting a great core of players, and getting several of them signed to back-diving contracts, then having the rules even out the playing field for everyone else.

It will be a lot tougher going forward.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

While it's great that McDavid can make a guy like Maroon a 30 goal scorer, the problem in a cap world is that, if he is constantly having to do that, the advantage of his superior skill is mitigated.

Comparing Gaudreau and Monahan, two great players, to McDavid, a generational player, plus a plug, evens things out. And the numbers quoted before bare that out. Going by memory (because it's a couple pages back) each pair got roughly 150 pts or whatever.

And that's why the cap is awesome. You draft a generational player? Great! Now you have to pay him $12.5M, so that costs you the equivalent of 2 great players. Evens things out.

And that's why so many people keep saying that simply getting a player like McDavid on your team, no longer means automatic cups. Because the cap is the great equalizer.

Chicago lucked out in their timing by getting a great core of players, and getting several of them signed to back-diving contracts, then having the rules even out the playing field for everyone else.

It will be a lot tougher going forward.

Pittsburgh?

[dino7c]

I think people that think the Pens won because of two forwards are greatly undervaluing Kessel. He is the one who pushed it over the edge the last two seasons. Assuming Drai is Malkin (I doubt it) how are the Oilers adding another top end scorer?

Oilers certainly could win a cup...it's not easy though and there isn't one model to follow. Let's be real here, one break here or there and either Nashville/Sens would be champs. Then would everyone be trying to stack their D? Probably

[TheFlamesVan]

^ Crosby's first one. They are beyond stacked now. They could seriously win 3 in a row.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Pittsburgh?

Crosby's/Malkin's first Cup win occurred while Malkin was still on his ELC and their last two happened with both playing on back-diving contracts that are now illegal.

[Jeromer2.0]

Oilers lock up the best player on the planet for the next 1 + 8 seasons for fair market value. Regardless of what the Oilers pay Draisaitl, they're legit with essentially 2/3's of their lineup locked up for 3-plus seasons. I do think we have a team that can challenge them for the Pacific and in the post-season. The BOA may finally be back.

[powderjunkie]

At this moment, I'd probably take McDavid and a bag of pucks for Johnny and Mony, but it's fairly close. I really, really, really hope that 3 years from now I'm wrong, but I'm just not sure our guys are going to reach the heights of Toews/Kane, Crosby/Malkin, Sakic/Forsberg, Yzerman/Fedorov.

I think the most probable optimistic outlook is Thornton/Marleau (or sadly, the Sedins) level - in the conversation for a decade, but never able to get all the way over the hump. Hopefully we can at least make the SCF, because then anything can happen. It's also very possible that they will prove to be a touch below that level - ie. Weight/Tkachuk.

[dino7c]

Mony and JG might not even be the Flames best players...until either team wins a cup all these assumptions are meaningless

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Crosby's/Malkin's first Cup win occurred while Malkin was still on his ELC and their last two happened with both playing on back-diving contracts that are now illegal.

Malkin isnt on a back diving contract his current 8 year deal pays him an an average $9.5M per season which at the time of the signing was market value for a player like Malkin even though Crosby still has a cap hit of only $8.7M. Kessle's cap hit of $6.8M dollar brings the trio's total cap hit to $25M. So with McDavid at $12.5M if Draisaitl's cap hit is $8M, the oilers would need to hope to get one more elite offensive forward at a cost of less than $4.5M to be paying less than Pittsburg is paying for their top 3 Fwds, and even then Crosby/Malkin>mcdavid/Draisaitl. After that they would also need the supporting cast of home grown talent that Pittsburg has for support/depth. It's not impossible, but a lot of things would need to go right for the oilers for it to happen. Not to mention the pens don't have anchor contracts like Lucic's and RNH's keeping them up against the cap.