Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[stang]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

Man I hope Dube is not one of the 5, but if he was not totally honest with the Flames then this is going to get ugly soon.

You would have thought someone would have said that his leave has nothing to do with this by now if he wasnt one.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by codynw

You’re still putting at least partial blame on the victim, #### off.

I'm not blaming her, simply pointing out there is inherent risk in meeting a stranger at a bar and going up to their hotel room. Of course, there's inherent risk in a lot of activities and the consequences are rarely this bad. The consequences of the decisions on that night are horrific.

For example, I used to buy things off ebay and suggested the drop off be done at a public place in broad daylight. That seemed inherently less risky than meeting at a known place where drugs were dealt at 3am.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

Man I hope Dube is not one of the 5, but if he was not totally honest with the Flames then this is going to get ugly soon.

I'm definitely curious to what extent the team knew.

The Sens likely knew something since they never re-signed Formenton in '22. Melnyk was what he was but at least his daughters have moral fibre

[GreenLantern2814]

Au revoir, Felicia

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Do we know what the evidence against the players is? Is it a forgone conclusion they did this? Or is there any chance they’re innocent?

The legal system historically is stacked against SA victims based on the burden of proof needed in a Court of Law.

Charges, typically, would only be brought if there was enough proof to lead to a conviction. Now, again in theory, Crown Prosecutors could feel differently about that evidence and decline to prosecute but I really don't see that happening.

The likely result is this is going to trial and we'll have to see if the burden of evidence is enough to lead to convictions.

Sadly, that isn't often what happens in SA cases.

Now, an individual's burden of proof, when looking at the same evidence, won't be as high as the courts. So make of that what you will.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

So hockey wise if Dube is part of this can the Flames terminate his contract and open up a roster spot or if he’s in a league support program does that keep that from happening?

That shouldn't be an impediment.

[Locke]

I leave you guys alone for like an hour and s### hits the fan.

What the hell?

Focus on the Hockey Players, the girl did nothing wrong. Full stop.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by stang

You would have thought someone would have said that his leave has nothing to do with this by now if he wasnt one.

yeaaaaaaaah :/

[Reggie Dunlop]

The Flames' statement regarding Topi Ronni basically said "we are aware of legal proceedings and will not comment further."

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I'm definitely curious to what extent the team knew.

The Sens likely knew something since they never re-signed Formenton in '22. Melnyk was what he was but at least his daughters have moral fibre

I was thinking the team had to know because of the settlement, but that was Hockey Canada, not the NHL. But the NHL did an investigation - I'm not sure if names were disclosed to the governors. I'm thinking the PA would object to that somehow.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by blankall

I've seen a lot of commentary about how the woman put herself in that situation. She shouldn't have agreed to go upstairs with the one player, shouldn't have been drinking, etc....It's all pretty disgusting. Women are allowed to go out and have fun, just like men can.

Wasn't this the case where one of the adults was also plying the girl with alcohol and encouraged her to go to the room? Unless I am mixing this up with another incident, she was manipulated and set-up.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

The legal system historically is stacked against SA victims based on the burden of proof needed in a Court of Law.

Charges, typically, would only be brought if there was enough proof to lead to a conviction. Now, again in theory, Crown Prosecutors could feel differently about that evidence and decline to prosecute but I really don't see that happening.

The likely result is this is going to trial and we'll have to see if the burden of evidence is enough to lead to convictions.

Sadly, that isn't often what happens in SA cases.

Now, an individual's burden of proof, when looking at the same evidence, won't be as high as the courts. So make of that what you will.

Ya I get all that. I’m asking if Westhead or someone else reported what they have as evidence. Wasn’t there video in one of these cases? Or incriminating texts between players? Or maybe I’m thinking of a different team Canada assault. Or maybe even the Virtanen one. There’s so many I honestly have trouble keeping track.

If it is just he said she said, the system is absolutely stacked against the victim.

[InternationalVillager]

How can anyone protect themselves from gang rape?

Utterly vile and disgusting. Any human involved should be rotting in a cell.

It's one thing in a he said/she said situation where there are opposing views on consent and that goes to trial but this kind of stuff is inhumane and inexcusable.

How can these guys look their mom, gf, wife, sister, daughter in the eye? Any of them married?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

Where is the fallout for Hockey Canada executives who participated in the payout and coverup.

They apparently have or had funds set aside to settle stuff like this. Just let that settle in. They expect stuff like this happen, and rather than doing their best to prevent it, they would rather pay for the damages as if the victims are prostitutes. Absolutely disgusting.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by gt4flames

Michael Macleod and Cal foot on leave from the devils.

This makes 5. If they are not, shouldn’t be someone else going on leave soon?

Can someone quietly report and still playing hockey?

Is there a deadline for reporting?

[SuperMatt18]

Didn't say anything then (and refrained from posting in the Dube thread) because I had heard late last week that Dube and Hart would be two of the players implicated in these proceedings and looks like that ended up being good intel based on how the last 4 or 5 days since then have went.

In terms of Dube specifically it's quite possible there is a separate mental health aspect to this...but to me personally if he ends up being one of the 5 charged then framing it as a mental health leave was not a good move by the organization.

[Infinit47]

If he is charged, which it seems like a real possibility, then I want the Flames to immediately terminate his contract and donate the balance of his salary this year to a women's charity in Calgary. Then I'd like them to explain why they needed criminal charges before they felt he should at the very least be away from the team (even with salary during the investigation).

Worst case scenario he sues them and is awarded his remaining salary as damages and they made an extra donation to a local women's charity.

As for the solitary person victim blaming in this thread, I hope you don't have daughters that are attacked and you tell them they are partially responsible for someone else being a POS.

[EN FUEGO]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

I'm not blaming her, simply pointing out there is inherent risk in meeting a stranger at a bar and going up to their hotel room.

Yes, you continue to point out the "risks this woman took", and it continues to reflect very poorly on your character.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Pretty sure everyone has thought about this. Don't think a single soul sympathises with the players in this situation. It's a reprehensible act that will lead to all kinds of consequences, including jail time.

Not quite sure what you're drilling at.

The ones who knew...and stayed silent. Or didn't act to stop it.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

I'm not blaming her, simply pointing out there is inherent risk in meeting a stranger at a bar and going up to their hotel room. Of course, there's inherent risk in a lot of activities and the consequences are rarely this bad. The consequences of the decisions on that night are horrific.

For example, I used to buy things off ebay and suggested the drop off be done at a public place in broad daylight. That seemed inherently less risky than meeting at a known place where drugs were dealt at 3am.

1. You're a buffoon.

2. Were they "strangers"? IIRC there is reason to believe the ringleader and victim knew each other for some time. I cringe to anticipate your next embarrassing rebuttal.