Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread

[chemgear]

Insane Baltimore gun battle erupts after robbery suspect brandishes weapons aboard bus

http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/06/08...ons-aboard-bus

https://www.facebook.com/steve.outla...type=2&theater

[SportsJunky]

That was nuts.

[troutman]

'Allowing conceivably anyone to acquire guns' results in charges against gun store owners

http://calgaryherald.com/news/crime/...ns-ammo-seized

Police executed a search warrant on May 29 at K&D Implements, the end result of a five-month long investigation of the Cardston business.


“This gun store needlessly put public safety at risk by allowing conceivably anyone to acquire guns, ” said Alberta Law Enforcement Response Teams (ALERT) Staff Sgt. Jason Walper.

“We would be naïve to believe that this was not exploited by organized crime and the criminal element.”

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by troutman

'Allowing conceivably anyone to acquire guns' results in charges against gun store owners

http://calgaryherald.com/news/crime/...ns-ammo-seized

Police executed a search warrant on May 29 at K&D Implements, the end result of a five-month long investigation of the Cardston business.


“This gun store needlessly put public safety at risk by allowing conceivably anyone to acquire guns, ” said Alberta Law Enforcement Response Teams (ALERT) Staff Sgt. Jason Walper.

“We would be naïve to believe that this was not exploited by organized crime and the criminal element.”

Exploited? It would be naive to think the father and son aren't part of organized crime.

The one charge of trafficking firearms carry's a 3-10 year sentence, any bets they don't even get the minimum even know they had over 1000 guns and other charges.

[wittynickname]

Not terrorism, he wasn't brown or black, so it's just garden variety "mental illness" gone awry as usual in good old Merica.

Police say Stair brought two pistol-grip shotguns to work at the store in rural Tunkhannock, about 150 miles northwest of New York City (241 kilometers), blocked store exits and began shooting shortly before 1 a.m. A fourth co-worker eventually escaped unharmed and called police. Stair also killed himself.

"This is really a mental health situation that utterly spiraled out of control," Mitchell said. "I think he had longstanding mental health issues that resulted in this horrible tragedy."

State police said he spent the first 90 minutes of his shift blocking exits with pallets and other items. After the store closed Stair retrieved a duffel bag from his car with the two shotguns, and began his attack.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/d...arket-47909262

[Resolute 14]

1300 children are killed by firearms every year in the US, making it the third-leading cause of death for that age group: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017...e-on-the-rise/

19 kids are shot every day, on average.

[Ozy_Flame]

Also, I think it's close to 10x as many adults are killed per year as well. I think there was something like 375 mass shootings in the U.S. in 2015.

Also just saw a statistic that there have been more fiream deaths in the U.S. between 1968 and 2011 than in war deaths suffered by the U.S. in all wars combined.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

1300 children are killed by firearms every year in the US, making it the third-leading cause of death for that age group: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017...e-on-the-rise/

19 kids are shot every day, on average.

there was a story yesterday of a 4 year old that shot himself in the face, so I was going to look it up and post it here. Apparently he wasn't the only 4 year old that shot himself recently, but what's staggering is if you search for "boy shoots self", in the last week, or month, just how many kids are shooting themselves down there. Murika, guns, god, eagle jizz

[CliffFletcher]

"Children" can be a misleading term.

Boys made up 82 percent of those fatally shot, and older children (aged 13 to 17) were 12 times more likely to die from firearms than younger children (0 to 12).

Pretty good bet most of those fatalities are 16 and 17 year olds involved in drug and gang activity. Which is sad, but not really the same thing as a 9 year old accidentally shooting his 7 year old brother in the head. It's like the alarming statistics about missing children, which lead you to believe they represent 8 year olds snatched off the street, when really 95 per cent of the "children" are teenagers who have run away from home.

America's gun culture is moronic. But torquing these kinds of stats to make a point is unnecessary.

[PepsiFree]

If you look at "1300 children dead" and think the lack of clarity on the ages of those children is the most concerning thing about that statistic, you're missing the point.

I don't care any more if a 6 year old year gets accidentally shot or a 16 year old gets shot in a drug deal. 1300 children, and every single one of them are dead because of American gun culture and ease of access.

It's good to point out details, but too often some posters here can't see the forest for the trees.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

America's gun culture is moronic. But torquing these kinds of stats to make a point is unnecessary.

Almost as unnecessary as throwing out the whole "it's just gang members" argument to try and minimize the issue?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I don't care any more if a 6 year old year gets accidentally shot or a 16 year old gets shot in a drug deal.

Really?

Granted, a 16 year old certainly isn't a fully mentally developed adult, but they have agency. They're capable of discerning right from wrong and making informed decisions. If a 16 year old is shot while conducting a drug deal, they've probably made some bad choices in order to put themselves in that position. I can't think of any circumstance where you could say a 6 year old is in any material way culpable for his or her own gun death.

Do you really want to stand by this view?

EDIT: It seems to me that the better response would be something like, "12 times more likely means that about 10% of those children were absolutely and inarguably innocent children - that is, 12 years or under. 130 dead kids a year is also a complete travesty."

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Do you really want to stand by this view?

EDIT: It seems to me that the better response would be something like, "12 times more likely means that about 10% of those children were absolutely and inarguably innocent children - that is, 12 years or under. 130 dead kids a year is also a complete travesty."

Yeah, I do. 1300 kids are 1300 kids. I appreciate your spin, but I don't think it needs spin, or details on age so someone can extrapolate some gangbanger theory.

1300 kids. That's all you need to know to know it's a travesty. Let's let child rapists and dirty teachers keep the "well, 16 year olds aren't really kids" argument.

1300 kids dead all stemming from the exact same issue - American gun culture - it's a travesty enough.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

1300 kids. That's all you need to know to know it's a travesty. Let's let child rapists and dirty teachers keep the "well, 16 year olds aren't really kids" argument.

Wait, you were "thanking" people in the "Another Teacher Sex Scandal" who were arguing that we should hold up on calling a teacher a pervert after he was charged for sexual assaulting his 16 year old student.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

That isn't "spin". It's a relevant moral distinction - six year olds have no agency, 16 year olds have some. Agency, the ability to distinguish right from wrong and make a choice about how you're going to behave, obviously matters when assessing the right and wrong of a situation. The fact that you're even arguing something so completely uncontroversial... just... why? That's not a rhetorical question.

Ironically, attempting to bring up child rapists and dirty teachers in the context of a conversation about gun deaths is quintessential "spin".

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Really?

Granted, a 16 year old certainly isn't a fully mentally developed adult, but they have agency. They're capable of discerning right from wrong and making informed decisions. If a 16 year old is shot while conducting a drug deal, they've probably made some bad choices in order to put themselves in that position. I can't think of any circumstance where you could say a 6 year old is in any material way culpable for his or her own gun death.

Do you really want to stand by this view?

EDIT: It seems to me that the better response would be something like, "12 times more likely means that about 10% of those children were absolutely and inarguably innocent children - that is, 12 years or under. 130 dead kids a year is also a complete travesty."

The bad choices made by a 16 year old getting involved in drugs does not mitigate or absolve the state from responsibility for its own bad choices. The latter is the issue under consideration in this context. Running with the former is designed to try and muddy the waters.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The bad choices made by a 16 year old getting involved in drugs does not mitigate or absolve the state from responsibility for its own bad choices. The latter is the issue under consideration in this context. Running with the former is designed to try and muddy the waters.

Word.

16 year olds get involved in drugs, gangs and bad choices in every region of the world.

The common denominator with american violence is the absurd prevalence and ease of access to firearms.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

The bad choices made by a 16 year old getting involved in drugs does not mitigate or absolve the state from responsibility for its own bad choices.

Sure, I agree. But there are can be more than one problem at a time, and more than one contributor to a problem. If you'll look, I wasn't saying there wasn't a problem with US gun laws. There pretty obviously is. I take issue with the plainly expressed notion that there's no moral difference between a 16 year old dying in a drug related shootout and a six year old finding her dad's gun in a dresser drawer and blowing her own head off.

Let's not get carried away in our zeal for justice and righteous anger and lose sight of reality. The facts, without any "packaging" or dressing up to make them look worse than they are, are adequately terrible to demand a solution. An honest and frank assessment of them is the best path to solving what is, in the case of the USA, an incredibly difficult problem. It would be even if Congress outlawed all gun sales tomorrow, full stop and with no exceptions.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Wait, you were "thanking" people in the "Another Teacher Sex Scandal" who were arguing that we should hold up on calling a teacher a pervert after he was charged for sexual assaulting his 16 year old student.

I thanked posts that said you were off the edge a little bit. I thought you made some good points, but you also made some bad posts in that thread (no offence).

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

That isn't "spin". It's a relevant moral distinction - six year olds have no agency, 16 year olds have some. Agency, the ability to distinguish right from wrong and make a choice about how you're going to behave, obviously matters when assessing the right and wrong of a situation. The fact that you're even arguing something so completely uncontroversial... just... why? That's not a rhetorical question.

Ironically, attempting to bring up child rapists and dirty teachers in the context of a conversation about gun deaths is quintessential "spin".

Maybe you should figure out what spin is.

In public relations and politics, spin is a form of propaganda, achieved through providing a biased interpretation of an event or campaigning to persuade public opinion in favor or against some organization or public figure.

"1300 kid deaths, but some are worse than others, so 1300 kids isn't accurate, because kids is too general and agency and maybe some were in gangs." = Spin

I'm not above it, so sure, call the comment about it being the same line used by child rapists and in teacher sex scandals "spin" but it's a true statement.

1300 kids is 1300 kids. Spin it however, but 1300 children aged 0-17 die every year. That seems like all you need to know.

[Resolute 14]

Interesting that you're challenging a "plainly stated" argument that PepsiFree never actually made, Corsi. He never said there is "no moral difference" between our hypothetical 16-year-old drug dealer and 6-year-old Sally. He said there is no difference in how he views the outcome: a child (youth, underage citizen, whatever word you wish to use) is dead, in part, because of US gun culture.