United Airlines forcibly removes passenger on flight they (did not) overbook

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

And then united will rip up those lawyers. The point is now moot starting today since they just shifted the timeline on when they'd boot a passenger.

That industry will still see similar issues tho since they will continue to oversell, and the buy back limit is capped.

based on what?

Certainly not the contract.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by photon

Don't know if it was mentioned already but Delta increased their limits so that crew can offer up to $2000 (from $800) and supervisors can offer up to $9,995.

Great, that's a good start. It would be rare to have a plane full of people pass on 2k, so that should resolve a lot of these. A bit of egg on united face that they didn't do it first.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by photon

Don't know if it was mentioned already but Delta increased their limits so that crew can offer up to $2000 (from $800) and supervisors can offer up to $9,995.

Just wondering, does it say they "need" to offer a certain amount?

Or can they still bump you if there are no takers?

[photon]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Just wondering, does it say they "need" to offer a certain amount?

Or can they still bump you if there are no takers?

I didn't see but I assume they'd still be able to bump of there's no takers, what I read just mentioned that they were changing their limits, didn't mention they were altering the terms and conditions.

$10k is a lot, one would think at the very least they're going to reduce the number of times needed to pick randomly significantly.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

based on what?

Certainly not the contract.

Yep the contract. Still looking for an education on the business of air travel.

If the only issue you find important is the strict legal review of the contract of carriage or united specific Terms and conditions then fine but it's not mine. I've read interpretations on both sides and I'm sure most people walk into developing their view based on existing bias so it's simply not interesting to me. But you just said that some people don't know about the business of air travel. And it's the business of this policy that interests me, so is telling people hey don't get it just a drive by or anything else to what you believe?

[nik-]

I guess we'll just have to see what the result is to see who was right.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

This thread title is more of an afront to the English language than the 'Recommend (or don't) a movie' thread. That's a lot of afronting.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Ha. Okay. Well, I think I understand "paying for something and expecting to get it doesn't make you entitled", but perhaps I don't understand air travel.

Straighten me out.

It's been said on the previous pages by myself and Acey if you bothered to read it. Basically situations arise where airlines have to comandeer seats for their staff to put out fires. Acey gave the example of Alaska having to fly a mechanic in to Edmonton to execute a fix. Guess what, someone got bumped for that, because 1 person losing their seat and getting delayed is better than 100 people. That's the math that airlines have to take into account. When you book with a large airline you're splitting the cost not just with the people on your flight but also the thousands that fly with that carrier everyday. You naturally only care about getting to your destination but the airline has to worry about everyone. It's not like they told this guy at first, "thanks for the money, better luck next time." He would've gotten to the destination for the fare paid plus extra compensation.

Originally Posted by Chell_King

If you paid to be on a Recreation softball team and they overbooked the amount of players on a team and randomly decided to cut you from the team would you think you were being treated unfairly? Or would you think that because you were the Best Hitter that you were "more important".

Would you blame the system?
Would you blame the Team Captain?
Would you blame you?

Speak to this...

I would easily blame the Team Captain, because as the best hitter and the only pitcher I'm clearly more important than the Cloister or J-Bone

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

It's been said on the previous pages by myself and Acey if you bothered to read it. Basically situations arise where airlines have to comandeer seats for their staff to put out fires. Acey gave the example of Alaska having to fly a mechanic in to Edmonton to execute a fix. Guess what, someone got bumped for that, because 1 person losing their seat and getting delayed is better than 100 people. That's the math that airlines have to take into account. When you book with a large airline you're splitting the cost not just with the people on your flight but also the thousands that fly with that carrier everyday. You naturally only care about getting to your destination but the airline has to worry about everyone. It's not like they told this guy at first, "thanks for the money, better luck next time." He would've gotten to the destination for the fare paid plus extra compensation.

You can repeat the corporate bull#### line all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the guy was getting ripped off, and when didn't smile and just take it, he was beaten up.

Splitting the costs with thousands of people or "executing a fix" aren't the customer's problem. If they wanted the seat that badly, pony up a few more bucks.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

It's been said on the previous pages by myself and Acey if you bothered to read it. Basically situations arise where airlines have to comandeer seats for their staff to put out fires. Acey gave the example of Alaska having to fly a mechanic in to Edmonton to execute a fix. Guess what, someone got bumped for that, because 1 person losing their seat and getting delayed is better than 100 people. That's the math that airlines have to take into account. When you book with a large airline you're splitting the cost not just with the people on your flight but also the thousands that fly with that carrier everyday. You naturally only care about getting to your destination but the airline has to worry about everyone. It's not like they told this guy at first, "thanks for the money, better luck next time." He would've gotten to the destination for the fare paid plus extra compensation.



I would easily blame the Team Captain, because as the best hitter and the only pitcher I'm clearly more important than the Cloister or J-Bone

Yeah, I was on a flight not that long ago that had mechanical problems that caused a several hour delay. On the was back to Toronto, they had to stop in St. John's and replace the crew who were then over their allowed hours. The new crew was flown in on emergency from Montreal.

I imagine that people were bumped either getting the new crew to St. John's or the old crew back to Toronto where they likely had other flights to work on that week.

I mean, they aren't going to cancel entire flights because some passengers refuse to be bumped. I get it that it would suck, but managing air traffic is a difficult business. It's not like just hailing a taxi or something.

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

but it doesn't change the fact that the guy was getting ripped off, and when didn't smile and just take it, he was beaten up.

He wasn't getting ripped off. And beaten up is a little dramatic. He was injured in the struggle when they tried to remove him (after he dared them to).

People are talking like one security held him while the other curb stomped him on the arm of the chair. They grabbed him and he flailed.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

You can repeat the corporate bull#### line all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the guy was getting ripped off, and when didn't smile and just take it, he was beaten up.

Splitting the costs with thousands of people or "executing a fix" aren't the customer's problem. If they wanted the seat that badly, pony up a few more bucks.

When your plane won't fly because the airline couldn't get the mechanic in try telling them over and over "that's not my problem" and see if it gets you off the ground any sooner.

Im sorry you think it's bull#### but the reality is, if you want a travel experience all about you and your schedule fly charter and pay 100X times the price. You should start coming to grips with that now before you have a hissy fit at the airport.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

I've said 3 Or 4 times here, and what nobody is focused on, is if airlines had to pay a market rate to buy heir oversold seats back, there is a 100 percent chance, that 100 percent of everyone will be happy. And if united is finding they are paying too much for seats, then they will sell less. Period. This should be bar far the most important issue, how to eliminate this situation in the future, which nobody likes.

It's trendy to dump on the big ugly corporations and leave no responsibility to individuals. That sense of entitlement is something I see all the time and this is a great example. Some people here think this doctor is a real trooper looking out for the little guy, when in fact he is the opposite. He basically said "pick someone else. I'm too important." And that is very ironic to me. Corporate policy is not perfect by any means, but the lack of responsibility and awareness that most people have for the business they conduct as individuals astonishes me sometimes.

I don't understand how you have the solution in the first paragraph, and then in the second paragraph, you go right back to making the corporation the victim, and the victim the the cause of the problem.

This isn't "picking on big ugly corporations". This is a specific incident, not some kind of oilsands or Monsanto anti corporation wannabe occupy movement. FFS, the guy just wanted to go home on the ticket he paid for. And as we've very thoroughly established, if the offer to buy back the seat was something worth getting off the plane and staying an extra day, someone would have taken it. So stop blaming the guy that got dragged and assaulted, and also stop accusing the posters in this thread of picking on big ugly corporations because it's trendy. It wasn't the internet that started this. The video came from a United airplane, and the facts have come out.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I don't understand how you have the solution in the first paragraph, and then in the second paragraph, you go right back to making the corporation the victim, and the victim the the cause of the problem.

This isn't "picking on big ugly corporations". This is a specific incident, not some kind of oilsands or Monsanto anti corporation wannabe occupy movement. FFS, the guy just wanted to go home on the ticket he paid for. And as we've very thoroughly established, if the offer to buy back the seat was something worth getting off the plane and staying an extra day, someone would have taken it. So stop blaming the guy that got dragged and assaulted, and also stop accusing the posters in this thread of picking on big ugly corporations because it's trendy. It wasn't the internet that started this. The video came from a United airplane, and the facts have come out.

Lol. I don't back the airline, my god, the exact opposite. Hey have a slanted policy about not paying the fair amount to get their tickets back.

The word victim is yours, where I differ from some is that if you are picked, acting like you are more important others isn't the best way to get my sympathy. Especially when everyone knows that united has that policy If you don't like it, fly southwest, WestJet or charter a plane. But if you want to fly anywhere for 159 bucks hen you have some risks. Simple as that. Since you are focused facts, it's a fact that all united passengers have that risk.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Lol. I don't back the airline, my god, the exact opposite. Hey have a slanted policy about not paying the fair amount to get their tickets back.

The word victim is yours, where I differ from some is that if you are picked, acting like you are more important others isn't the best way to get my sympathy. Especially when everyone knows that united has that policy If you don't like it, fly southwest, WestJet or charter a plane. But if you want to fly anywhere for 159 bucks hen you have some risks. Simple as that. Since you are focused facts, it's a fact that all united passengers have that risk.

Pretty sure nobody here or there gives a flying F about your sympathy. All the guy wanted was to go home, and I guarantee that someone on that plane had a purchase price that was more than $800, and less than what this is going to cost. But you know, I'm sure Dao is really sad that he didn't gain your sympathy. Total fail on his part.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Pretty sure nobody here or there gives a flying F about your sympathy. All the guy wanted was to go home, and I guarantee that someone on that plane had a purchase price that was more than $800, and less than what this is going to cost. But you know, I'm sure Dao is really sad that he didn't gain your sympathy. Total fail on his part.

You oddly seem to care enough though. You haven't paid attention to a single point I make, invent my opinion and now hang on to the fact He doesn't care about my opinion? Thanks for coming out.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

You oddly seem to care enough though. You haven't paid attention to a single point I make, invent my opinion and now hang on to the fact He doesn't care about my opinion? Thanks for coming out.

Your sympathy. But since you mention it, your opinion is not something I care about either. You win this thread.

[missdpuck]

Delray man singled out and escorted off flight
http://www.wptv.com/news/region-s-pa...-the-spotlight

A local guy was removed from a JetBlue flight for doing a video selfie.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Acey]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

You can repeat the corporate bull#### line all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the guy was getting ripped off, and when didn't smile and just take it, he was beaten up.

Splitting the costs with thousands of people or "executing a fix" aren't the customer's problem. If they wanted the seat that badly, pony up a few more bucks.

Technically he wasn't, as the reimbursement was far more than the value of the ticket.

I reiterate that no post I have made in this thread is in defence of United and I certainly disagree with what they did.

Originally Posted by Chell_King

If you paid to be on a Recreation softball team and they overbooked the amount of players on a team and randomly decided to cut you from the team would you think you were being treated unfairly? Or would you think that because you were the Best Hitter that you were "more important".

Would you blame the system?
Would you blame the Team Captain?
Would you blame you?

Speak to this...

I'd blame the system, but I'll add that this is a terrible analogy as you're conveniently leaving out the part where you would either be offered a spot on another team in relatively short order, or fully reimbursed for the value of your registration plus more.

Again, I'm not a fan of a couple decisions United made in this incident, but if somebody were to read only the last few posts in this thread they'd think United just randomly (it actually wasn't random) picked a dude who paid for a flight and kicked him to the curb with nothing.

[Tsawwassen]

"United Airlines now has to drag people on."
https://mobile.twitter.com/AlbertBrooks/status/852993602770919424?p=v
https://mobile.twitter.com/AlbertBrooks/status/852993602770919424/actions

[killer_carlson]

huge drop today for United Airlines stock. Down 3.65%. Not sure if it will rally or not.

That translates to a 1.082 Billion Dollar drop of their market cap from before the incident.

Who'd have thought that investigations from the Department of Transport in both Canada and the US would be bad for business?

I guess the whole market must not understand the airline business.

Update: From when I started typing this post to now, it's down 3.76%. Based on my math each 1% drop is about a $230 million dollar drop. So a 0.1 drop is a 23 million dollar hit.