United Airlines forcibly removes passenger on flight they (did not) overbook

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

So you would also consider the mom entitled, who had to get home to her child? Or is it just the doc who is entitled?
I would guess there were a lot of people on that flight who didn't 'need' to get home that night. United just didn't offer them enough.

I think it's entitled to assume that you're the only person who wants to be home, or who has important things to do when you're home. It was dumb of them to do the lottery instead of just upping compensation, and I think a big beneift of all this is that airlines are already upping the max compensation to bump passangers. But they had to do it because no one was volunteering to get off, and it's not like everyone will have a pow wow and unanimously pick who the least important person who doesn't have to be home is. That's the purpose of the random draw, tough luck but that's how it goes sometimes, roll with it like an adult.

It's like when you have a parent that doesn't do their part for the bingo night for their kids team because they're "too busy". When you say that you're implying that you're busier than the other people who are taking part, which comes off arrogantly as though they're not busy too.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

You might think so, good luck convincing the mom on that though

I don't know man, I heard from somebody who heard from somebody else that this mom is into some shady ####. Like a previous conviction or some kinda deal. Abusing some prescription meds too.

Probably will make you feel better about her getting beat up, knocked unconscious and dragged off a plane.

[RougeUnderoos]

Kind of a weird tack this has taken, with all this talk of entitlements and who is more important.

It doesn't matter what the guy's job is. He had a ticket. He paid for it. That makes him entitled to get what he paid for. That's the point of paying for the ticket in the first place.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Kind of a weird tack this has taken, with all this talk of entitlements and who is more important.

It doesn't matter what the guy's job is. He had a ticket. He paid for it. That makes him entitled to get what he paid for. That's the point of paying for the ticket in the first place.

It's not as simple as that, anyone who thinks so doesn't understand air travel.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

It's not as simple as that, anyone who thinks so doesn't understand air travel.

Ha. Okay. Well, I think I understand "paying for something and expecting to get it doesn't make you entitled", but perhaps I don't understand air travel.

Straighten me out.

[transplant99]

I really dont understand the vehement defending of what United did by some...just weird.

I guess they knew they were wrong however as they have changed their policy from caving in faces of 70 year olds who had followed all protocol and been seated to not being allowed to bump people already boarded and seated waiting for takeoff. I wonder why they would make such a change when...you know...."thats just the way it is man".

[nik-]

Because technically, in the fine print, they reserve the right to smash your face.

[Chell_King]

Originally Posted by calculoso

If you include all of the patients that the Doctor has to see the next day, he is more important than the mom who's kid has school the next day.

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

It's not as simple as that, anyone who thinks so doesn't understand air travel.

If you paid to be on a Recreation softball team and they overbooked the amount of players on a team and randomly decided to cut you from the team would you think you were being treated unfairly? Or would you think that because you were the Best Hitter that you were "more important".

Would you blame the system?
Would you blame the Team Captain?
Would you blame you?

Speak to this...

[Frequitude]

I'd like to think that I would have told the United employees and the security guys

"You have 2 choices:

1) You can continue increasing the compensation until enough people are prepared to give up their seats, or

2) You can physically drag me from this plane while all these people film you with their cell phones and post it to social media where you will be publicly identified and the internet vigilante justice mob will go viral and ruin both your life and United's reputation. You will end up getting fired because of it, having trouble finding a new job because this will come up whenever your name is googled, and this will follow you for the rest of your life. The rest of your life will never be the same.

Choose wisely."

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

I'd like to think that I would have told the United employees and the security guys

"You have 2 choices:

1) You can continue increasing the compensation until enough people are prepared to give up their seats, or

2) You can physically drag me from this plane while all these people film you with their cell phones and post it to social media where you will be publicly identified and the internet vigilante justice mob will go viral and ruin both your life and United's reputation. You will end up getting fired because of it, having trouble finding a new job because this will come up whenever your name is googled, and this will follow you for the rest of your life. The rest of your life will never be the same.

Choose wisely."

"You have two choic..." *head bounces off armrest* *gets dragged off of plane*

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

It's not as simple as that, anyone who thinks so doesn't understand air travel.

It is as simple as that, anyone who doesn't think so doesn't understand the concept of running a business where optics matters.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I really dont understand the vehement defending of what United did by some...just weird.

I guess they knew they were wrong however as they have changed their policy from caving in faces of 70 year olds who had followed all protocol and been seated to not being allowed to bump people already boarded and seated waiting for takeoff. I wonder why they would make such a change when...you know...."thats just the way it is man".

It was a business decision to change the policy, not moral one. Hundreds, if not thousands of passengers have been bumped before.

The difference in this situation was that poorly trained security butchered the removal of the uncooperative passenger and videos were release. Had neither of those things happened, United's bottom line wouldn't have been affected and I doubt their policies would be any different today.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

It's not as simple as that, anyone who thinks so doesn't understand air travel.

That's where you're mistaken.

Defending on the the fine print on the ticket is a very narrow view of this incident. I'd suggest anyone who defends on this basis does not understand the business of air travel.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Ha. Okay. Well, I think I understand "paying for something and expecting to get it doesn't make you entitled", but perhaps I don't understand air travel.

Straighten me out.

Read your contract you tick the box saying you read next time. Then you'll understand air travel.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Read your contract you tick the box saying you read next time. Then you'll understand air travel.

so should you.

Boarding vs boarded
proportionality of response
authority of agents to intervene
amongst other legal items

If you think that the fine print on the bottom of a ticket is going to prevent the resounding investor, passenger, and political responses to this incident, you're mistaken.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

That's where you're mistaken.

Defending on the the fine print on the ticket is a very narrow view of this incident. I'd suggest anyone who defends on this basis does not understand the business of air travel.

Teach me what you know about the business of air travel. The reality is that I doubt anyone here truly knows, but I imagine the business of selling more tickets than seats is very good business.

I don't, and I doubt most on here support united actions. It's an awful look to kick people out of a seat someone has parked themselves in. And their CEO has shown the world how arrogant and tone deaf they must be, right to the core.

I've said 3 Or 4 times here, and what nobody is focused on, is if airlines had to pay a market rate to buy heir oversold seats back, there is a 100 percent chance, that 100 percent of everyone will be happy. And if united is finding they are paying too much for seats, then they will sell less. Period. This should be bar far the most important issue, how to eliminate this situation in the future, which nobody likes.

It's trendy to dump on the big ugly corporations and leave no responsibility to individuals. That sense of entitlement is something I see all the time and this is a great example. Some people here think this doctor is a real trooper looking out for the little guy, when in fact he is the opposite. He basically said "pick someone else. I'm too important." And that is very ironic to me. Corporate policy is not perfect by any means, but the lack of responsibility and awareness that most people have for the business they conduct as individuals astonishes me sometimes.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

so should you.

Boarding vs boarded
proportionality of response
authority of agents to intervene
amongst other legal items

If you think that the fine print on the bottom of a ticket is going to prevent the resounding investor, passenger, and political responses to this incident, you're mistaken.

According to an airline watchdog rep (whose job it is to call out airlines on BS), "boarding" isn't complete until the doors on the plane are closed. At that point, there is a transfer of power and security from the airport to the crew and airline. They said that you can be bumped any time before boarding is complete (so before the doors are closed).

[killer_carlson]

and i'll tell you the lawyers will rip that to shreds.

Further, don't take the word of a watchdog rep. Look to the source document directly.

Here is the contract of carriage from united (from a quick google search).

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...-carriage.aspx

Unless I missed it, there is no definition of boarding and a distinction in the document from boarding to one reference to "boarded". There is also no reference to boarding and the doors have closed.

It's possible it's in the US legislation, but it does not appear to be in the contract. United has a pile of rights, but they can't invent new ones that aren't in the contract without facing scrutiny and risk.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

and i'll tell you the lawyers will rip that to shreds.

And then united will rip up those lawyers. The point is now moot starting today since they just shifted the timeline on when they'd boot a passenger.

That industry will still see similar issues tho since they will continue to oversell, and the buy back limit is capped.

[photon]

Don't know if it was mentioned already but Delta increased their limits so that crew can offer up to $2000 (from $800) and supervisors can offer up to $9,995.