Sure, but (and I don't mean to definitively judge someone I know only through posts on an Internet message board) it seems as though you are doing it out of anger, which doesn't tend to lead to the healthiest of discussions.
Aside from a priest touching me when I was a child, I can't think of what I'd be angry about. You could be wrong.
I wouldn't say that believers are mentally ill, but Grown adults believing in children's fairy-tale's is a little weird isn't it?
And yet every society on the planet since humans developed speech (and maybe before) have had religion. It clearly meets some pretty deep-rooted and universal needs.
Anyone who hasn't watched Bill Moyer's interviews with Joseph Campbell should fix that.
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If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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[QUOTE=PepsiFree;6189870]Who is debating that there is no exception? And, generally I'd think, most of these conversations are focused on North America. I can't really speak to society in Poland in the 1900s, and I have no idea how relevant it is.Quote]
What does it matter what group and where? Who get's to decide who is "advantaged" and "disadvantaged", based on what criteria? One persons or groups subjective opinion to suit some sort of personal gain. Collectivist group identity is inherently unfair and oppressive. Individualism is much more reasonable and fair. It could very wildly from person to person within that selected group. Besides nature, biology and genetics aren't fair, people are born in different circumstances and with different innate abilities. I know that sounds crazy to an Ideologue, but it's demonstrably true. Everything can't be boiled down to power games and social constructs.
"I've talked to Indians working in low-level jobs that easily rank among the most highly qualified and intelligent people I know. I don't know many situations where immigrants come in at an advantageous position over most Canadians. Where are you sourcing that generalization from?"
Anecdotal and not really relevant. So what do you propose to rectify this? Give them special rights and privileges above other identifiable groups based off of your subjective opinion of who is advantaged or not? How do you do that without discriminating against other identifiable groups? Can't you see the problem.
"I think that's more a convenient characterization than an honest one. A view that we should all just be individuals would be considered simple and naive from a biological or historical perspective."
Wrong. Dealing with the individual is infinitely more difficult and nuanced then applying collectivist group identity associations. It's also the only honest and fair way to act. People are complex and vary from one another, even within the same identifiable group.
"The biological vulnerability of children is unclear and mostly a social construct as well, unless you believe the actual biological cutoff of vulnerability to be 18 years exactly. How do you measure that?"
So you are saying the vulnerability of say a two year old is subjective and mostly a social construct????? Huh? We are talking about undeveloped non-fully functionally mature Human beings here. Would you deny the vulnerability of the physically handicapped? The arbitrary cut off of 14,16,18 years old is a social construct to protect children and serve as a societal guideline for legal conduct for interactions with, and or on behave of these persons. I agree that it could vary from individual to individual in terms of some of these guidelines, but the law is required to be this cut and dry for clarity. This shouldn't be too hard to follow.
"I apologise, I forgot that you're somewhat triggered by the disadvantages of young men. I disagree, since violence is not the sole indicator of vulnerability, but it's not important to my point so we can leave it. What my point was, primarily, is do you define "child" by the legal cutoff?"
This is just hilarious. The poster that runs around feigning offense and trying to police the conduct of others, is claiming someone else is triggered. I figured you would be more sensitive and tolerant to the feelings of others. I guess only when it suits your personal agenda.
"You agree that children should be protected because of vulnerability, but not vulnerable adults. Flip it around. A 17 year old girl and an 18 year old boy. You believe the boy is more vulnerable, but you believe in exceptional treatment of the girl who could be anywhere from just a few days to a year and some younger. Why? Under what justification?"
If you are 18 years old the law considers you to be an adult, is every individual necessarily a functioning adult at that arbitrary date, of course not. There's variance between different individuals, but not where the law is concerned. Adults should be able to protect themselves, the government shouldn't step in unless an individuals or groups rights aren't being violated. Not some willy nilly subjective oppressor versus oppressed narrative
"Tribalism/Violence is a false equivalence. They aren't similar on a biological processing level.
Tribalism is inherently positive, it's a huge part of why we even exist today. It can be used in a negative way considering other impulses embedded in our DNA, but tribalism is marvelous. Is hunger bad? arousal? love?"
Wow, way to miss the point. Violence can be a logical result of tribalism, that is historically proven. It doesn't have to be that way, that's why we have things like sports teams and different political parties, so that hopefully things don't turn violent because we have played a different tribal social game. Tribalism can be inherently negative as well and result in racism to the extent of genocide. It's weird somebody claiming tribalism is marvelous but supports identity politics, diversity and inclusion so strongly.
"As I've said many times, I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of tribalism, because you confuse the way we respond to those impulses with the impulses themselves. The "Edmonton is no good" impulse in tribalism is the exact same impulse as "kill the people who aren't like me." What you're describing is how we respond to the impulses of tribalism, not tribalism itself."
Yeah that's why it's important to recognize the way we are wired and be constructive when dealing with our biological wiring and not destructive.
"Hunger often leads to eating. Some people eat amounts that make them dangerously obese. That doesn't make hunger bad.
Arousal often leads to sex or masturbation. Instead of consensual sex or masturbation, some people commit rape or sexual assault. That doesn't make arousal bad.
How we react to impulses is not the same as the impulses themselves."
Yeah that is all pretty obvious and not even relevant to the discussion.
I wouldn't say that believers are mentally ill, but Grown adults believing in children's fairy-tale's is a little weird isn't it?
This shows that you have a very basic understanding of what Religion is. Religion created stability. Priests were some of the first scientists and science has no greater friend then Religion. Are some practices out of date, of course. Are some of the "fairy-tales" not scientifically accurate, Of course, but that's not the point, the point is the lessons that can be learned from these stories and allegories and applied to a persons life that will enrich it, the people around them and ultimately civilized societies.
Most atheist's or anti-Religion types only focus on the bad things associated, and neglect the good. Sad.
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Address whatever you like, I know you will glean something from somewhere and re-frame it to force me to engage you on your new terms. I know all the pc tricks of Marxists.
Everything can't be boiled down to power games and social constructs.
Some things can.
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Originally Posted by Illuminaughty
So what do you propose to rectify this?
Nothing, you missed the point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuminaughty
Wrong. Dealing with the individual is infinitely more difficult and nuanced then applying collectivist group identity associations.
Right. That's what I said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuminaughty
The arbitrary cut off of 14,16,18 years old is a social construct to protect children and serve as a societal guideline for legal conduct for interactions with
Right. That's what I said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuminaughty
This is just hilarious. The poster that runs around feigning offense and trying to police the conduct of others, is claiming someone else is triggered. I figured you would be more sensitive and tolerant to the feelings of others. I guess only when it suits your personal agenda
I wasn't being facetious. Not everyone is a right-wing troll that uses triggered to mock opinions they don't understand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuminaughty
If you are 18 years old the law considers you to be an adult
Hot take.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuminaughty
It's weird somebody claiming tribalism is marvelous but supports identity politics, diversity and inclusion so strongly.
Is it? Read more about tribalism and identity politics. Very linked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuminaughty
Yeah that's why it's important to recognize the way we are wired and be constructive when dealing with our biological wiring and not destructive.
Right. That's what I said.
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Originally Posted by Illuminaughty
Yeah that is all pretty obvious
Now you got it.
Sometimes, people use humor because others aren't worth treating seriously.
Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp
I wouldn't say that believers are mentally ill, but Grown adults believing in children's fairy-tale's is a little weird isn't it?
Why is it a concern of yours?
If it gives someone purpose and meaning we should be happy for them. I have a friend who is a Mormon and while I disagree strongly with their beliefs I can see how it's had a positive effect on their life.
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This shows that you have a very basic understanding of what Religion is. Religion created stability. Priests were some of the first scientists and science has no greater friend then Religion. Are some practices out of date, of course. Are some of the "fairy-tales" not scientifically accurate, Of course, but that's not the point, the point is the lessons that can be learned from these stories and allegories and applied to a persons life that will enrich it, the people around them and ultimately civilized societies.
Most atheist's or anti-Religion types only focus on the bad things associated, and neglect the good. Sad.
Religion is part 'shaminism' (a sincere desire to understand nature and the divine) and politics (a desire for power in the social order). These get blended and mixed up with good and bad outcomes. Generally, I think the political aspect of religion leads to more problems than solutions...
Is it possible that Religion can be used to inspire people to behave altruistically? Sure. However, it's equally likely that it will inspire exclusion and dysfunctional outcomes.
At the end of the day if religion makes you act better...yay. If it makes you a jerk...Boo.
In this case, religion is making the school act like jerks...
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I wasn't being facetious. Not everyone is a right-wing troll that uses triggered to mock opinions they don't understand.
Hot take.
Is it? Read more about tribalism and identity politics. Very linked.
Yeah no kidding. It's cultural Marxism, which is just pitting people and groups against each other by appealing to our tribal nature. Divide and conquer. Maybe you should read about it because it's incredibly dangerous to civilized society.
Right. That's what I said.
Now you got it.
Sometimes, people use humor because others aren't worth treating seriously.
Religion is part 'shaminism' (a sincere desire to understand nature and the divine) and politics (a desire for power in the social order). These get blended and mixed up with good and bad outcomes. Generally, I think the political aspect of religion leads to more problems than solutions...
Is it possible that Religion can be used to inspire people to behave altruistically? Sure. However, it's equally likely that it will inspire exclusion and dysfunctional outcomes.
At the end of the day if religion makes you act better...yay. If it makes you a jerk...Boo.
In this case, religion is making the school act like jerks...
It's a tool, it's not the tools fault how the user chooses to operate it.
Religion has done a whole bunch of good for humanity, we shouldn't be so quick to just throw it away because it doesn't serve as much of an importance presently, as it once did.
BTW, to quote multiple things take the first part of the quote function (quote=name;89809) and place it in front of every line you're going to respond to. Place the end (/quote) at the end of that line. This creates x number of little quote bubbles for your convenience.
It's a tool, it's not the tools fault how the user chooses to operate it.
Religion has done a whole bunch of good for humanity, we shouldn't be so quick to just throw it away because it doesn't serve as much of an importance presently, as it once did.
Dude, religion isn't going anywhere until our DNA is tweaked. We, as a species, are hard wired to join a tribe and let other people tell us what is right and wrong. And since this is the way people are wired, there will always be people who are willing to tell people what God wants...for a fee of some kind of course.
There may be an exceptional group that, due to their religious beliefs, make a difference in reducing the suffering of humanity. Kudos to them. There are others who humbly seek individual enlightenment and dedicate themselves to this peaceful purpose. Kudos to them too.
However, other religious people are going through the motions or even worse are using religion to justify obnoxious behaviour.
So no-one is going to get me to believe that humanity is going to throw religion away, even if it wanted to. It's baked in. The best we can hope for is enlightened leadership that inspires people to act altruistically.
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"WHAT HAVE WE EVER DONE TO DESERVE THIS??? WHAT IS WRONG WITH US????" -Oiler Fan
"It was a debacle of monumental proportions." -MacT
I just suggested that it's weird to me, that people believe in what is, in my opinion, children's stories. I still understand anyone has the right to believe what they want. Whatever makes you happy go for it, I'm not stopping you.
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