Flames Off-Season Game Plan - TSN

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Our winger depth is still pretty bad.

I for one think we need to start promoting from within. It might mean short term setbacks but if we handcuff ourselves to more short-term fill in overpriced vets (ala Brouwer, although Stone and Versteeg could be in this camp depending on if we bring them back and on what terms) we will close our window before it ever opens.

Burke famously said you have to walk before you run, run before you sprint. Our playoff win in 2015 might have been the worst thing to happen to us -- it caused us to think our rebuild was further along than it was.

Stay the course. Promote youth.

My two cents.

You're right, but the problem is the Flames can't draft. Right now we should've had Klimchuck or Poirer make that next step. They were, after all, first round picks.

Last year instead of Brouwer we should've had Baertchi or Granlund make that jump. Instead we got Shinkaruk who's a question mark at this point.

The Flames have to look outside the organization because the only way they can guarantee NHL talent is to sign NHL talent. They simply struggle immensely creating it from the draft

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

You're right, but the problem is the Flames can't draft. Right now we should've had Klimchuck or Poirer make that next step. They were, after all, first round picks.

Last year instead of Brouwer we should've had Baertchi or Granlund make that jump. Instead we got Shinkaruk who's a question mark at this point.

The Flames have to look outside the organization because the only way they can guarantee NHL talent is to sign NHL talent. They simply struggle immensely creating it from the draft

It's an epidemic that has lasted for decades now. I hope the Treliving regime is finally the one that turns the corner on drafting and development for this organization because it's utterly pathetic and we will never build or maintain a contending team without it.

[Mister Yamoto]

If at all possible, bring back Stone. The nice thing about Stone is that we already know that he is a good fit.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

If at all possible, bring back Stone.

Meh, I'd rather have Shattenkirk (which isn't realistic) or Franson (which is moreso). Stone is more "Plan C" in my mind.

[GranteedEV]

TSN has us losing Kulak. That would be a tough outcome to swallow for expansion.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

TSN has us losing Kulak. That would be a tough outcome to swallow for expansion.

I voted Brouwer in the poll I started a while back, but now I'm leaning more towards Shinkaruk or Kulak.

I think Kulak would be taken without a doubt if it weren't for the fact that Vegas is going have a plethora of 4-7 Dmen to choose from and Kulak has to pass through waivers now.

He's a gamer IMO, and I believe the Flames held him back a bit this season to keep him potentially more under the radar and less likely to be selected. I'm a big Kulak fan though so maybe I've been chugging too much of my own Kool-Aid.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

TSN has us losing Kulak. That would be a tough outcome to swallow for expansion.

There are so many better, more proven defenders (young ones too) for Vegas to choose from that will fetch a better return in trade or be a really good building block for themselves that I doubt they would use the Calgary pick on a defender.

I think we lose Chiasson.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

A team with Ferland as 1st line RW is unlikely to be a playoff team.

Such an overly simplistic way of viewing things. PIT doesn't have a 1st line RW on their 1st line and they are in the Stanley Cup finals so I guess your statement has been proven absolutely false?

1. Teams often spread their depth out these days. They don't play their top 3 offensive threats all on the same line usually. So highlighting a complimentary player who plays 1st line and saying X team sucks because Y player is on the 1st line is a very weak argument. PIT could easily be in the SC Finals with Ferland playing 1st line RW.

2. Flames within 2 years may have three 1st line LWs if we move Bennett to the wing. Does it really matter how good your RWers look if you've got three 1st line LWs? I mean it does, you want some solid complimentary guys and powerforwards but if your lineup contains multiple 1st line LWs and multiple top two line centres then I think that's about all you can ask for in today's NHL.

3. Related to #1 but some fans don't seem to realize that playing a bunch of guys who want the puck on their stick together can make for a mediocre line. Sometimes the player that best fits a line isn't the most skilled player left on the team but instead the player who compliments the weaknesses of the other two. Monahan and Gaudreau are both skilled, non-physical players who do not excel in physical board battles or physical net front battles. The best compliment for them may not be a Mike Cammalleri or Jiri Hudler who also cannot win physical battles. Sure that type of line will find some success in the regular season but usually wilts and no-shows the more physical playoffs. A better compliment for Monahan and Gaudreau would probably be a Lucic, Holmstrom, Simmonds, etc type player who can do the things they can't. A type of player who can make space for them, win board battles, drive the net to get deflections/screens/rebounds, etc.

In the end looking whoever is playing RW on the so called first line is not a good way to evaluate the depth of the team. Trying to predict our playoff chances based on evaluating that one position is even more foolhardy. I wish our fanbase would stop focusing on that one position and try to look at the overall depth as a whole. I wish our fanbase would stop focusing on trying to create the most skilled line possible and instead focus of trying to get 3 scoring lines where the play styles of the players compliment each other nicely.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Parallex

There are so many better, more proven defenders (young ones too) for Vegas to choose from that will fetch a better return in trade or be a really good building block for themselves that I doubt they would use the Calgary pick on a defender.

I think we lose Chiasson.

Defenders are worth more in trade value than wingers. Why wouldn't they take as many as they can?

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Defenders are worth more in trade value than wingers. Why wouldn't they take as many as they can?

Because if they don't make the top 7, and they have to pass through waivers to get sent down, they may lose them.

It's all good to say, "grab all the D you can", but that just means that they need to force D trades to fill out the rest of the lineup and farm... and not everybody is going to want to trade to get a D-man.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

Because if they don't make the top 7, and they have to pass through waivers to get sent down, they may lose them.

Well they have the whole summer to trade. Doesn't make sense to turn down dmen just because you're scared you might lose one on waivers. Take a bunch. Trade several. Keep the rest. And it could still be worthwhile to take guys who will have to be waived. Cause its hard to teams to claim guys coming out of preseason and a lot of guys will be snuck through. And then you have guys on the verge of making the NHL or who will be good depth when injuries hit.

Defenders are one of the most valuable commodities in the NHL. I'd be prioritizing them.

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

It's all good to say, "grab all the D you can", but that just means that they need to rely on D trades to fill out the rest of the lineup and farm... and not everybody is going to want to trade to get a D-man.

Not quite sure what you're trying to say here. If they grab all the D you can then they still need to trade for some? Don't follow you there. Not everybody is going to want to trade to get a d-man? Defensemen are hard to get in trade. If LV has extra that they can sell off that's a good thing for them.

You may need to rephrase that paragraph, I really don't understand what you're trying to suggest there.

[topfiverecords]

I can't recall who it was, but it was a guest on fan 960 about a month ago, and he said he believes McPhee won't try to build a team out of players in the expansion draft, and let positional needs sway selections, but that most of the players selected will be ones that have the best value as a moveable asset to use in future trades to build the team.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Yup, that's the smart move. Take the best assets available. And with the way the protection lists work that probably means taking as many good young defencemen as possible.

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Not quite sure what you're trying to say here. If they grab all the D you can then they still need to trade for some? Don't follow you there. Not everybody is going to want to trade to get a d-man? Defensemen are hard to get in trade. If LV has extra that they can sell off that's a good thing for them.

You may need to rephrase that paragraph, I really don't understand what you're trying to suggest there.

I guess I'm saying that now they need to trade for the other positions they need and could have drafted if they hadn't just taken a bunch of D.

[Roof-Daddy]

Vegas has to draft at least 9 D, 3 G and 14 F

So the most D they could draft would be 13 if they used the last 4 selections on all D which seems unlikely.

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Vegas has to draft at least 9 D, 3 G and 14 F

So the most D they could draft would be 13 if they used the last 4 selections on all D which seems unlikely.

I guess in reality there are only four additional picks - at the end of the day it isn't going to make much of a difference.

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Vegas has to draft at least 9 D, 3 G and 14 F

So the most D they could draft would be 13 if they used the last 4 selections on all D which seems unlikely.

They will also draft based on waiver eligibility as the will still need to fill out their AHL club.

[TheScorpion]

I like their projected roster but I'd bring back Versteeg and send Bouma to the AHL.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Since1984

They will also draft based on waiver eligibility as the will still need to fill out their AHL club.

They don't actually have a whole AHL club to fill out. For 2017-18, the Blues will still be sending some players to the Chicago Wolves.

[Roof-Daddy]

Another interesting thing is that IIRC Vegas can only take 10 RFA's out of the 30, so that might throw a wrinkle into things. Not sure how many of the likely selected/exposed players are RFA's but that might be something that keeps Vegas from taking a Shinkaruk, Kulak or Chiasson as opposed to taking a Brouwer, Bouma or Stajan.

Can't wait to watch it all go down.