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Old 04-28-2017, 07:15 PM   #21
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I'm always surprised at the "grass is greener" mentality of fans on this board when it comes to goalies. We'll sit here and say we didn't do well enough shoring up goaltending with what we have in front of us every year, then we'll look out and suggest similar options.

The Flames are a team that has tried a bunch of "could be elite if they put it together" and "is elite at times" goalies, why do we get excited at the thought of more of that? I think we we're safely at a point where we should be targeting a true number one and paying for it, not looking at the secondary options that come with a cheaper price tag.

Been there, done that.....since the day Kipper retired. Let's become a contender.
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Old 04-28-2017, 07:16 PM   #22
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I want Darling on the Flames, hopefully he waits for free agency to explore all his options. With the Hurricanes he would pretty much be guaranteed to be playing on a non-playoff team for the duration of his contract with the exception of the odd lucky year. He also risks eventually playing in Quebec which might not be appealing for him.
Signing with the Hurricanes this summer basically will be signing on to play with Quebec, immediately.
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Old 04-28-2017, 07:23 PM   #23
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I'm always surprised at the "grass is greener" mentality of fans on this board when it comes to goalies. We'll sit here and say we didn't do well enough shoring up goaltending with what we have in front of us every year, then we'll look out and suggest similar options.

The Flames are a team that has tried a bunch of "could be elite if they put it together" and "is elite at times" goalies, why do we get excited at the thought of more of that? I think we we're safely at a point where we should be targeting a true number one and paying for it, not looking at the secondary options that come with a cheaper price tag.

Been there, done that.....since the day Kipper retired. Let's become a contender.
Darling has better stats than Talbot did.
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Old 04-28-2017, 07:41 PM   #24
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At least this takes Carolina out of the goalie market.
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Old 04-28-2017, 07:50 PM   #25
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At least this takes Carolina out of the goalie market.
that was exactly my thinking too...
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Old 04-28-2017, 08:04 PM   #26
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I doubt he's on Tre's radar anyways.

I'm going to be pretty surprised if they don't go full out for Bishop to be honest. Best of the proven starters on the free agent market this off season, and they already just about traded for him at least once that we know of.
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Old 04-28-2017, 08:11 PM   #27
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Take the MAF 2 year term and run.
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Old 04-28-2017, 08:37 PM   #28
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Take the MAF 2 year term and run.
I want MAF too. But the cost of acquiring him is going up.
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Old 04-28-2017, 08:57 PM   #29
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I want MAF too. But the cost of acquiring him is going up.

Maybe. But I don't think the price will be prohibitive. The Flames should still be able to get him for picks/prospects.
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Old 04-28-2017, 08:57 PM   #30
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I want MAF too. But the cost of acquiring him is going up.
Doubtful. His performance is irrelevant at this stage (unless we're talking about Pittsburgh flip flopping on Murray/MAF). With Darling going to Carolina, MAF's possible destinations just got smaller. Pittsburgh is being forced to trade one of the goalies, they simply don't have a lot of bargaining power. Lose a goalie for nothing, or be proactive and get something.

If Dallas or someone wants to create a bidding war, you simply walk away from the table and go after someone else.
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Old 04-28-2017, 09:12 PM   #31
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Doubtful. His performance is irrelevant at this stage (unless we're talking about Pittsburgh flip flopping on Murray/MAF). With Darling going to Carolina, MAF's possible destinations just got smaller. Pittsburgh is being forced to trade one of the goalies, they simply don't have a lot of bargaining power. Lose a goalie for nothing, or be proactive and get something.

If Dallas or someone wants to create a bidding war, you simply walk away from the table and go after someone else.
Agreed. Pittsburgh has their back against the wall. They won't dictate the return as teams know they will have to settle for the best offer and there will only be a small handful of teams seriously interested with the cap room. I imagine the Penguins will wait until the very last days before the draft in hopes of waiting out a high bid. As you say if another GM gets silly you make your final offer and if it's not enough then move on to another possible trade around the draft or free agency.
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Old 04-28-2017, 11:02 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by jayswin View Post
I'm always surprised at the "grass is greener" mentality of fans on this board when it comes to goalies. We'll sit here and say we didn't do well enough shoring up goaltending with what we have in front of us every year, then we'll look out and suggest similar options.

The Flames are a team that has tried a bunch of "could be elite if they put it together" and "is elite at times" goalies, why do we get excited at the thought of more of that? I think we we're safely at a point where we should be targeting a true number one and paying for it, not looking at the secondary options that come with a cheaper price tag.

Been there, done that.....since the day Kipper retired. Let's become a contender.
But remember kipper was a nobody goalie picked out of nowhere for a second (and most people would have rather Toskala at the time).
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Old 04-29-2017, 07:09 AM   #33
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Which teams still need a goalie? Off the top of my head, the Flames are competing with:
Vancouver
Winnipeg
Dallas
Islanders?
Flyers?
Vegas
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Old 04-29-2017, 07:43 AM   #34
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But remember kipper was a nobody goalie picked out of nowhere for a second (and most people would have rather Toskala at the time).
How many seasons are the flames going to ruin if the keep hoping to get lucky in this way?
Ruined the last two, for example.

They have to pony up. Tre screws up goaltending 3 years in a row, he deserves to be fired.
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Old 04-29-2017, 08:25 AM   #35
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How many seasons are the flames going to ruin if the keep hoping to get lucky in this way?
Ruined the last two, for example.

They have to pony up. Tre screws up goaltending 3 years in a row, he deserves to be fired.
Not his fault Elliott crapped the bed. It was a solid move when it went down.
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Old 04-29-2017, 08:37 AM   #36
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Not his fault Elliott crapped the bed. It was a solid move when it went down.
You get judged by results, though.
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Old 04-29-2017, 09:00 AM   #37
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How many seasons are the flames going to ruin if the keep hoping to get lucky in this way?
Ruined the last two, for example.

They have to pony up. Tre screws up goaltending 3 years in a row, he deserves to be fired.
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You get judged by results, though.
Nah.

Brian Elliot stat line 5 years previous:

Starts - 164
Wins - 104
Loss - 46
GAA - 2.01 (2.55 with Flames)
SV% - 0.925 (0.910 with Flames)

Chad Johnson stat line 3 years previous:

Starts - 80
Wins - 47
Loss - 28
GAA - 2.43 (2.59 with Flames)
SV% - 0.915 (0.910 with Flames)

He goes out and snags two guys with sparkling recent numbers for a 2nd round pick and $4.2 million of cap space when the team was in a total cap crunch because of contracts he didn't even sign (Wideman, Smid, Stajan). It was wizardry at it's finest.

If they under performed that's on the players, not Treliving.

He didn't go out and get a couple scrubs and hope they would perform. He went out and got top performers.

...and not only that, despite their drop in numbers, the Flames still made huge improvements in most areas, including a 17 point standings gain and a playoff spot, so I wouldn't characterize what happened this season as Tre "screwing up the goaltending", nor should anyone.
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Old 04-29-2017, 09:05 AM   #38
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Yeah, and Elliott proved he was the player Tre thought he was acquiring at the end of the season, and then got in his own head in the playoffs. The team in front of him didn't play differently, he just started letting in beach balls for inexplicable reasons.

Elliott's implosion is not on Tre. It's on Elliott. He played himself out of a retirement contract into a "show-me" contract.

That said, he WILL get that deal. 1-2 years, $2-3M. Just a question of who IMO.
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Old 04-29-2017, 09:46 AM   #39
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I'm always surprised at the "grass is greener" mentality of fans on this board when it comes to goalies. We'll sit here and say we didn't do well enough shoring up goaltending with what we have in front of us every year, then we'll look out and suggest similar options.

The Flames are a team that has tried a bunch of "could be elite if they put it together" and "is elite at times" goalies, why do we get excited at the thought of more of that? I think we we're safely at a point where we should be targeting a true number one and paying for it, not looking at the secondary options that come with a cheaper price tag.

Been there, done that.....since the day Kipper retired. Let's become a contender.
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Old 04-29-2017, 12:07 PM   #40
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You get judged by results, though.
Trevling isn't getting robots from a store shelf. He's getting human beings that are paid to perform and have the abilities within themselves to produce. Sure if BT overpaid for some bottom barrel castaway and we're down a 1st rounder in the draft, you could say he screwed up. But he literally went out and paid a very cheap price for a top performer (according to his stats) for a low cap hit. Any GM does that.

Most say the Flames biggest need this offseason is a top line RW. So if BT goes out and gets Patrick Kane for a couple draft picks, gets Chicago to retain 50% salary, wouldn't you say that's a win? Not a single damn person in the hockey world would argue otherwise. And what if Kane completely bombs and puts up 15 pts and is on the 4th line by the end of the season. It that's BT's fault too, or is that on the player?

No one's saying that Elliott didn't completely bomb when it mattered most. But in the grand scheme of things, the Flames took a pretty big step forward in year 4 of the rebuild, and that was in large part due to Treliving's moves. Treliving plays the game on paper. The players play it on the ice. To lay blame on the GM for a player's implosion at a critical time is pretty short sighted.
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