04-28-2017, 07:15 PM
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#21
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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I'm always surprised at the "grass is greener" mentality of fans on this board when it comes to goalies. We'll sit here and say we didn't do well enough shoring up goaltending with what we have in front of us every year, then we'll look out and suggest similar options.
The Flames are a team that has tried a bunch of "could be elite if they put it together" and "is elite at times" goalies, why do we get excited at the thought of more of that? I think we we're safely at a point where we should be targeting a true number one and paying for it, not looking at the secondary options that come with a cheaper price tag.
Been there, done that.....since the day Kipper retired. Let's become a contender.
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04-28-2017, 07:16 PM
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#22
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
I want Darling on the Flames, hopefully he waits for free agency to explore all his options. With the Hurricanes he would pretty much be guaranteed to be playing on a non-playoff team for the duration of his contract with the exception of the odd lucky year. He also risks eventually playing in Quebec which might not be appealing for him.
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Signing with the Hurricanes this summer basically will be signing on to play with Quebec, immediately.
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04-28-2017, 07:23 PM
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#23
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin
I'm always surprised at the "grass is greener" mentality of fans on this board when it comes to goalies. We'll sit here and say we didn't do well enough shoring up goaltending with what we have in front of us every year, then we'll look out and suggest similar options.
The Flames are a team that has tried a bunch of "could be elite if they put it together" and "is elite at times" goalies, why do we get excited at the thought of more of that? I think we we're safely at a point where we should be targeting a true number one and paying for it, not looking at the secondary options that come with a cheaper price tag.
Been there, done that.....since the day Kipper retired. Let's become a contender.
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Darling has better stats than Talbot did.
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04-28-2017, 07:41 PM
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#24
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Paradise
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At least this takes Carolina out of the goalie market.
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04-28-2017, 07:50 PM
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#25
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samonadreau
At least this takes Carolina out of the goalie market.
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that was exactly my thinking too...
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04-28-2017, 08:04 PM
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#26
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Franchise Player
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I doubt he's on Tre's radar anyways.
I'm going to be pretty surprised if they don't go full out for Bishop to be honest. Best of the proven starters on the free agent market this off season, and they already just about traded for him at least once that we know of.
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04-28-2017, 08:11 PM
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#27
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North America
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Take the MAF 2 year term and run.
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04-28-2017, 08:37 PM
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#28
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoho
Take the MAF 2 year term and run.
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I want MAF too. But the cost of acquiring him is going up.
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04-28-2017, 08:57 PM
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#29
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Acerbic Cyberbully
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
I want MAF too. But the cost of acquiring him is going up.
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Maybe. But I don't think the price will be prohibitive. The Flames should still be able to get him for picks/prospects.
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04-28-2017, 08:57 PM
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#30
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
I want MAF too. But the cost of acquiring him is going up.
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Doubtful. His performance is irrelevant at this stage (unless we're talking about Pittsburgh flip flopping on Murray/MAF). With Darling going to Carolina, MAF's possible destinations just got smaller. Pittsburgh is being forced to trade one of the goalies, they simply don't have a lot of bargaining power. Lose a goalie for nothing, or be proactive and get something.
If Dallas or someone wants to create a bidding war, you simply walk away from the table and go after someone else.
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04-28-2017, 09:12 PM
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#31
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComixZone
Doubtful. His performance is irrelevant at this stage (unless we're talking about Pittsburgh flip flopping on Murray/MAF). With Darling going to Carolina, MAF's possible destinations just got smaller. Pittsburgh is being forced to trade one of the goalies, they simply don't have a lot of bargaining power. Lose a goalie for nothing, or be proactive and get something.
If Dallas or someone wants to create a bidding war, you simply walk away from the table and go after someone else.
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Agreed. Pittsburgh has their back against the wall. They won't dictate the return as teams know they will have to settle for the best offer and there will only be a small handful of teams seriously interested with the cap room. I imagine the Penguins will wait until the very last days before the draft in hopes of waiting out a high bid. As you say if another GM gets silly you make your final offer and if it's not enough then move on to another possible trade around the draft or free agency.
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04-28-2017, 11:02 PM
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#32
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Slightly right of left of center
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin
I'm always surprised at the "grass is greener" mentality of fans on this board when it comes to goalies. We'll sit here and say we didn't do well enough shoring up goaltending with what we have in front of us every year, then we'll look out and suggest similar options.
The Flames are a team that has tried a bunch of "could be elite if they put it together" and "is elite at times" goalies, why do we get excited at the thought of more of that? I think we we're safely at a point where we should be targeting a true number one and paying for it, not looking at the secondary options that come with a cheaper price tag.
Been there, done that.....since the day Kipper retired. Let's become a contender.
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But remember kipper was a nobody goalie picked out of nowhere for a second (and most people would have rather Toskala at the time).
__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
- Aristotle
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04-29-2017, 07:09 AM
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#33
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Calgary, AB
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Which teams still need a goalie? Off the top of my head, the Flames are competing with:
Vancouver
Winnipeg
Dallas
Islanders?
Flyers?
Vegas
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04-29-2017, 07:43 AM
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#34
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger
But remember kipper was a nobody goalie picked out of nowhere for a second (and most people would have rather Toskala at the time).
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How many seasons are the flames going to ruin if the keep hoping to get lucky in this way?
Ruined the last two, for example.
They have to pony up. Tre screws up goaltending 3 years in a row, he deserves to be fired.
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04-29-2017, 08:25 AM
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#35
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Oct 2016
Exp:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonBlue
How many seasons are the flames going to ruin if the keep hoping to get lucky in this way?
Ruined the last two, for example.
They have to pony up. Tre screws up goaltending 3 years in a row, he deserves to be fired.
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Not his fault Elliott crapped the bed. It was a solid move when it went down.
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Hey, why don't I just go eat some hay, make things out of clay, lay by the bay? I just may! What'd ya say?
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04-29-2017, 08:37 AM
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#36
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyGilmore
Not his fault Elliott crapped the bed. It was a solid move when it went down.
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You get judged by results, though.
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04-29-2017, 09:00 AM
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#37
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonBlue
How many seasons are the flames going to ruin if the keep hoping to get lucky in this way?
Ruined the last two, for example.
They have to pony up. Tre screws up goaltending 3 years in a row, he deserves to be fired.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonBlue
You get judged by results, though.
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Nah.
Brian Elliot stat line 5 years previous:
Starts - 164
Wins - 104
Loss - 46
GAA - 2.01 (2.55 with Flames)
SV% - 0.925 (0.910 with Flames)
Chad Johnson stat line 3 years previous:
Starts - 80
Wins - 47
Loss - 28
GAA - 2.43 (2.59 with Flames)
SV% - 0.915 (0.910 with Flames)
He goes out and snags two guys with sparkling recent numbers for a 2nd round pick and $4.2 million of cap space when the team was in a total cap crunch because of contracts he didn't even sign (Wideman, Smid, Stajan). It was wizardry at it's finest.
If they under performed that's on the players, not Treliving.
He didn't go out and get a couple scrubs and hope they would perform. He went out and got top performers.
...and not only that, despite their drop in numbers, the Flames still made huge improvements in most areas, including a 17 point standings gain and a playoff spot, so I wouldn't characterize what happened this season as Tre "screwing up the goaltending", nor should anyone.
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04-29-2017, 09:05 AM
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#38
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The C-spot
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Yeah, and Elliott proved he was the player Tre thought he was acquiring at the end of the season, and then got in his own head in the playoffs. The team in front of him didn't play differently, he just started letting in beach balls for inexplicable reasons.
Elliott's implosion is not on Tre. It's on Elliott. He played himself out of a retirement contract into a "show-me" contract.
That said, he WILL get that deal. 1-2 years, $2-3M. Just a question of who IMO.
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04-29-2017, 09:46 AM
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#39
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayswin
I'm always surprised at the "grass is greener" mentality of fans on this board when it comes to goalies. We'll sit here and say we didn't do well enough shoring up goaltending with what we have in front of us every year, then we'll look out and suggest similar options.
The Flames are a team that has tried a bunch of "could be elite if they put it together" and "is elite at times" goalies, why do we get excited at the thought of more of that? I think we we're safely at a point where we should be targeting a true number one and paying for it, not looking at the secondary options that come with a cheaper price tag.
Been there, done that.....since the day Kipper retired. Let's become a contender.
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__________________
Is your cat doing singing?
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04-29-2017, 12:07 PM
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#40
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonBlue
You get judged by results, though.
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Trevling isn't getting robots from a store shelf. He's getting human beings that are paid to perform and have the abilities within themselves to produce. Sure if BT overpaid for some bottom barrel castaway and we're down a 1st rounder in the draft, you could say he screwed up. But he literally went out and paid a very cheap price for a top performer (according to his stats) for a low cap hit. Any GM does that.
Most say the Flames biggest need this offseason is a top line RW. So if BT goes out and gets Patrick Kane for a couple draft picks, gets Chicago to retain 50% salary, wouldn't you say that's a win? Not a single damn person in the hockey world would argue otherwise. And what if Kane completely bombs and puts up 15 pts and is on the 4th line by the end of the season. It that's BT's fault too, or is that on the player?
No one's saying that Elliott didn't completely bomb when it mattered most. But in the grand scheme of things, the Flames took a pretty big step forward in year 4 of the rebuild, and that was in large part due to Treliving's moves. Treliving plays the game on paper. The players play it on the ice. To lay blame on the GM for a player's implosion at a critical time is pretty short sighted.
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