Alberta Politics Thread

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

This cap of electricity reminds me of Ralph's natural gas rebates.

Is it any different?

Totally different. The provincial government makes a boatload of money when the price of natural gas is high.

They make nothing when electricity is high.

[DoubleK]

Unbelievable. Alberta will soon be racking up Electricity debt at the provincial level.

smh

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Where in the NDP's 2015 campaign platform did it say "We're going to put a lot of effort in to ####### around with Alberta's electrical system so that everyone pays more for less service?"

[Locke]

nm

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

Where in the NDP's 2015 campaign platform did it say "We're going to put a lot of effort in to ####### around with Alberta's electrical system so that everyone pays more for less service?"

don't you remember it was right above the whole "We're going to bring in a Carbon Tax"

You know in the small writing in the brochure written in invisible ink

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by Delgar

Yes. Completely. I'm not sure how you would argue they are the same, frankly. The market isn't an even game where ins=outs. Where it goes in and where it comes out makes a world of difference.

Seems similar to me.

A consumer subsidy is a consumer subsidy.

The news piece I heard is that the consumer price would be capped and Electricity Producers get the difference in amount. The effort would be financed by the carbon tax.

In Ralph's day, the consumer price was reduced once gas hit a certain benchmark. Natural Gas vendors got the difference in amounts (Once they finally got the rebate system set-up to pay producers instead of Albertans). The effort was financed by the energy royalties of the day

I don't see how this is bad for electrical producers. They get to sell what the market will bear... difference between the cap and the market price is covered for them.

Am I am missing something?

[DoubleK]

You've mixed the colours and the whites.

The province is paying the difference between what the consumer wholesale cap and what the wholesale price. I haven't heard anything about where that funding is coming from, carbon tax or otherwise.

[Kjesse]

nm

[Jacks]

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/poli...-energy-prices

There are a few mechanisms it could use, but whatever happens, government officials said power companies will not take the hit if the wholesale cost of producing power rockets past 6.8 cents (for example, if the price of natural gas goes up or a power plant has a massive generator failure). Officials floated options, including the government physically buying power for four years or using carbon tax funds to plug the gap if producing power gets past 6.8 cents.

So the theory is that you put in a carbon tax, that raises the cost of energy, with the goal of getting people to lower their energy usage. Then if the price gets too high you take that carbon tax money and use it to lower the price of energy. But not too low! because we are trying to discourage power consumption. But not too high! because we don't want to lose voters.

I have a better idea, how about they just quit screwing with the energy structure and scrap the stupid carbon tax.

[spuzzum]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...gyny-1.3863097

Sandra Jansen who jumped over to the NDP made this speech in the house this afternoon shocking everyone who was there. While I do not condone lots of the comments made to her, she has to expect some backlash for jumping ship.

[CaptainCrunch]

I agree with her that the response was wrong in the way that the language was used.

But how can she not expect anger and sheer rejection of her by people who are both sick and tired but at the same time have come to expect that politicians aren't there to serve the public good, they're serving themselves.

And especially now with so much anger about the government in place, a government that she criticized and then ran across the floor to join.

I believe that she was probably harassed at the Conference, but at the same time there were reports from the other side that her people were doing the same thing.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by spuzzum

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...gyny-1.3863097

Sandra Jansen who jumped over to the NDP made this speech in the house this afternoon shocking everyone who was there. While I do not condone lots of the comments made to her, she has to expect some backlash for jumping ship.

I have no idea how or if we're going to adapt to a society where every person has an anonymous voice in the public forum. Even if only 1 in 1000 is a miserable sack of bile, that's enough to make social media toxic for those who can't block them out. There isn't a single kind of hate that can be reduced to such low levels that they'll stop appearing on social media.

So what do we do about it? Jansen says we can't ignore it or tolerate it. Ok. So every public figure in the country declares that misogynist online comments are loathsome. Now what? Will that really stop some creep sitting in his basement in Sherwood Park from making hateful comments? We need to recognize that trying to enforce social norms doesn't work against anti-social, anonymous people. They don't care about social norms. They're venting their own anger at the world. You can't shame them into being considerate and empathetic people.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Seriously? That's so damned transparent. You crossed the floor from a right of centre party to a left of centre party, essentially ignoring the wishes of your constituents when they elected you, and then comb your social media for the worst possible anonymous comments you can find and try to play the victim? Next up, Sandra Jansen's crusade against the YouTube comments section!

This person is utterly beneath contempt.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

Where in the NDP's 2015 campaign platform did it say "We're going to put a lot of effort in to ####### around with Alberta's electrical system so that everyone pays more for less service?"

I don't know, ask the folks that voted for them?

A lot of us saw this train wreck coming and warned the would be NDP voters in May of 2015.

[the_only_turek_fan]

I just don't get it.

We have decades of evidence that socialist policies don't work, and we also have a basket case called Ontario, yet people still voted for them.

I don't know. I just don't get it.

[Cuz]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

I just don't get it.

We have decades of evidence that socialist policies don't work, and we also have a basket case called Ontario, yet people still voted for them.

I don't know. I just don't get it.

You forgot about BC in the 1990's

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Seriously? That's so damned transparent. You crossed the floor from a right of centre party to a left of centre party, essentially ignoring the wishes of your constituents when they elected you, and then comb your social media for the worst possible anonymous comments you can find and try to play the victim? Next up, Sandra Jansen's crusade against the YouTube comments section!

This person is utterly beneath contempt.

Well sure, people are upset and have every right to be. No one is debating that. But don't you think that it crosses the line when the commentary changes from a tone of "I'm made that you crossed the floor and won't vote for you" to "you should be shot" type of thing? I don't think that's appropriate, regardless of the views you might have of the persons politics.

I do think that there is a sentiment that these types of comments "come with the territory" and I just plain disagree. People can be angry, and upset. They can disagree vehemently and absolutely can and should voice that disagreement. But the name calling, thinly veiled threats and behaviour like that shouldn't be tolerated.

[Resolute 14]

Stupid though it is, things like that is still just hyperbole, Slava. And Jansen seeking to use her gender as a shield from criticism - legitimate or hyperbolic - is just as repugnant as the people who are throwing misogynistic harassment at her.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Stupid though it is, things like that is still just hyperbole, Slava. And Jansen seeking to use her gender as a shield from criticism - legitimate or hyperbolic - is just as repugnant as the people who are throwing misogynistic harassment at her.

No, no it's not even close.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well sure, people are upset and have every right to be. No one is debating that. But don't you think that it crosses the line when the commentary changes from a tone of "I'm made that you crossed the floor and won't vote for you" to "you should be shot" type of thing? I don't think that's appropriate, regardless of the views you might have of the persons politics.

I do think that there is a sentiment that these types of comments "come with the territory" and I just plain disagree. People can be angry, and upset. They can disagree vehemently and absolutely can and should voice that disagreement. But the name calling, thinly veiled threats and behaviour like that shouldn't be tolerated.

First, yeah, I agree that it's over the line and people shouldn't say anything like that. I also recognize that this is the internet, and the reality is that it's going to happen, especially when you're a public figure.

So it doesn't "come with the territory" of being an MLA, but it does "come with the territory" of being a controversial figure (which she is, now) and existing online. Until someone regulates trolling and being an a-hole on the internet, and I don't even think they should do that, this is going to be the trade-off for having a twitter account. People can say mean, horrible things to you. You can then block them. This isn't exclusive to politicians.

But what Jansen has done here, tried to distract from legitimate criticism by mining her comment stream for the worst of what people will say when they're not face to face with someone and casting herself as a victim (and her critics as those victimizing her), is so repugnant it actually competes with the decision to cross the floor in the first place for sheer obnoxiousness.