[Signing] Avs sign Colborne (2 yrs, $2.5 mil AAV) - Page 10 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

calgaryblood · 07-01-2016, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Apparently he wasn't willing to sign here for 2.5

Seems like it's Treliving being classy and not just saying the team wanted to move on in public.

It's obvious Colborne was well respected by management especially for his work in the community. I don't think it was the arbitration rights at all that made them not qualify Colborne.

He loved Calgary, his family is here, I think if there was any respectable offer from them he would have taken it to stay.

Bend it like Bourgeois · 07-01-2016, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Apparently he wasn't willing to sign here for 2.5

Ah. Thats not how I took treliving's comments but you might be right.

EldrickOnIce · 07-01-2016, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Seems like it's Treliving being classy and not just saying the team wanted to move on in public.

It's obvious Colborne was well respected by management especially for his work in the community. I don't think it was the arbitration rights at all that made them not qualify Colborne.

He loved Calgary, his family is here, I think if there was any respectable offer from them he would have taken it to stay.

I agree completely.
Listened to an interview with Av's radio. Colborne said all the right things, of course, but he sounded pretty shook up (while claiming he was excited).

Jay Random · 07-01-2016, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

I don't think it was the arbitration rights at all that made them not qualify Colborne.

There was literally no other reason not to qualify him. Even if the team wanted to move on, he would have simply refused his QO and then been a tradeable asset.

calgaryblood · 07-01-2016, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Random

There was literally no other reason not to qualify him. Even if the team wanted to move on, he would have simply refused his QO and then been a tradeable asset.

One other reason could be that Treliving already gauged the market for him at the trade deadline and there was no market for him. So the other reason to not qualify him would be for him not to be on the team next season...

memphusk · 07-01-2016, 06:56 PM

Classy way of saying goodbye. Good on both sides. Glad I'm not a fan of a team that has Bergevin as a GM And that other dummy as a coach.

IgiTang · 07-01-2016, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

One other reason could be that Treliving already gauged the market for him at the trade deadline and there was no market for him. So the other reason to not qualify him would be for him not to be on the team next season...

And what does that say about the fact that he actually managed to scrape together a decent season production wise.

It says, GM's around the league wernt convinced his season was as fluke and that he likely wouldnt repeat those numbers.

free agency signing is different because it costs no assets to acquire, but GM's wernt willing to give up assets and if they were, BT wasnt interested in them.

Jay Random · 07-01-2016, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

One other reason could be that Treliving already gauged the market for him at the trade deadline and there was no market for him. So the other reason to not qualify him would be for him not to be on the team next season...

Colborne was not going to sign his QO, that much is obvious. So if you don't want him on the team, you qualify him and he doesn't sign. Easy peasy.

As for your theory, there is always some market for a 26-year-old, 40-point player. There was a market for David freaking Jones, who was much older and much less productive.

I believe Treliving was telling the truth about not wanting to go to arbitration. No other explanation makes sense.

calgaryblood · 07-01-2016, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Colborne was not going to sign his QO, that much is obvious. So if you don't want him on the team, you qualify him and he doesn't sign. Easy peasy.

As for your theory, there is always some market for a 26-year-old, 40-point player. There was a market for David freaking Jones, who was much older and much less productive.

I believe Treliving was telling the truth about not wanting to go to arbitration. No other explanation makes sense.

If the Flames made him his qualifying offer and he rejected he'd still be a restricted free agent. So would he really have any value to Colorado who signed him as a UFA? Maybe they didn't want to give up any assets to sign him. That scenario rarely ever happens in the NHL to even use it as a hypothetical in this situation.

RobbieT · 07-01-2016, 07:02 PM

Sorry it didn't work out Joe, good luck! See you in 2 years??

Jay Random · 07-01-2016, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

If the Flames made him his qualifying offer and he rejected he'd still be a restricted free agent. So would he really have any value to Colorado who signed him as a UFA? Maybe they didn't want to give up any assets to sign him. That scenario rarely ever happens in the NHL to even use it as a hypothetical in this situation.

Maybe they didn't want to give up any assets to sign Colborne. But there's a good chance somebody would have. A player doesn't get signed on July 1 if only one team is interested in him.

JiriHrdina · 07-01-2016, 07:15 PM

I think the issue was that if they qualified him they would go to arbitration with no ability to walk away if they didn't like the ruling. So it isn't a matter of him just declining the QO. It's the impact that offer had on arbitration. Someone can correct if wrong

Calgary4LIfe · 07-01-2016, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I think the issue was that if they qualified him they would go to arbitration with no ability to walk away if they didn't like the ruling. So it isn't a matter of him just declining the QO. It's the impact that offer had on arbitration. Someone can correct if wrong

Correct. The Flames wouldn't have been able to walk away for something around 3.5 million or 3.7 million (someone else correct me if I am wrong) if the arbitrator awarded him that much or less. It was too much risk in Treliving's mind to qualify him and end up being stuck with him for that amount, as Colborne did have enough of a case for it.

As for my thoughts on Colborne, I am actually very disappointed. People see what they want to see - and I am no different. However, what I see is a big kid who can skate and who has moments where he puts his game together that he becomes an almost dominating force on the ice. For me, those moments seemed to be happening more. If you see Colborne as a finished product, than him moving on will be a good thing. I see him as someone who was getting better - and that isn't a stretch when you see how many years in the NHL he has had.

I also thought the Colborne - Backlund - Frolik line would have been a really good checking line, while providing really good depth scoring. I thought it would have taken a lot of heat off the Gaudreau-Monahan line, as well as continued to shelter the Bennett line well.

Now, the Flames still have Backlund and Frolik, so I am hoping whomever they try on that line can fill Colborne's shoes just as well.

Also, I looked at Colborne not because he was 6'5" and could be a huge skilled banger. I just saw him as a really big kid who, while he continued developing, would be able to control important areas of the ice for the Flames - namely, along the boards and in front of the net. He has taken great steps in both areas, and the Flames were extremely weak in those areas. Obviously the Brouwer signing is going to definitely fill those areas that Colborne started to occupy, and that is awesome. However, it isn't like it would be a waste having Colborne still on the team.

I do think that Colborne was improving every year, and looked much more engaged consistently in the 2nd half of last year until things clicked. Other people just see a flash in the pan. I am disappointed that he is leaving, and I wish him the best.

Vulcan · 07-01-2016, 07:27 PM

IIRC it was much the same situation with Russell in St. Louis. Russell was up for arbitration and the Blues didn't want to pay so they put him on waivers. Nobody else wanted to pay either so he passed through waivers. Having seen this Russell signed a reasonable contract which made him an asset again that the Flames were willing to give up a 4th for.

calgaryblood · 07-01-2016, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I think the issue was that if they qualified him they would go to arbitration with no ability to walk away if they didn't like the ruling. So it isn't a matter of him just declining the QO. It's the impact that offer had on arbitration. Someone can correct if wrong

It wasn't a given it would go to arbitration. They could have negotiated with Colborne but yes he did have the right to arbitration but arbitration cases are so rare that I don't think Colborne would have went that route. He seemed like he knew his value. He did sign for $2.5 million hours into free agency. Think he also got the hint he wasn't coming back to Calgary under any circumstance.

JiriHrdina · 07-01-2016, 07:43 PM

the qualifying offer would have shifted a lot of leverage to his side

CsInMyBlood · 07-01-2016, 08:00 PM

Seriously best part of the off season for me, knowing that the management were watching the same Joe Colborne I was seeing and didn't think he was a fit for this team going forward.

Going to be addition by subtraction, not to mention how much Brouwer will upgrade that position. We just got so much harder to play against.

Well done Mr. Treliving.

getbak · 07-01-2016, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

It wasn't a given it would go to arbitration. They could have negotiated with Colborne but yes he did have the right to arbitration but arbitration cases are so rare that I don't think Colborne would have went that route. He seemed like he knew his value. He did sign for $2.5 million hours into free agency. Think he also got the hint he wasn't coming back to Calgary under any circumstance.

Arbitration cases aren't rare, especially with a player who was in Colborne's situation. He almost certainly would have filed for arbitration, and Flames management clearly believed he was going to have a good case for at least a $3 million contract.

Yes, they may have settled before the arbitrator handed down the ruling, but it still gives the player a lot of leverage in negotiations. Look at Bouma last season. He had a strong arbitration case and would have likely received a big award from the arbitrator, so the Flames ended up paying more than they likely wanted to pay to make sure he was secured.

Vulcan · 07-01-2016, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

the qualifying offer would have shifted a lot of leverage to his side

Oh yeah, I see why Treliving didn't qualify him but I think he was worth $2.5M and can't understand why they couldn't reach an agreement at that price. Maybe egos got in the way.

Jay Random · 07-01-2016, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Oh yeah, I see why Treliving didn't qualify him but I think he was worth $2.5M and can't understand why they couldn't reach an agreement at that price. Maybe egos got in the way.

They couldn't get an agreement at that price, I suspect, because Colborne thought he could get more by going to arbitration. As soon as he became a UFA, he was no longer eligible and he signed for what he could get on the open market.