Black teen shot and killed by neighborhood watch in Orlando gated community

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Lt.Spears

People only care if its a white guy doing something racist.

Hispanic guy kills black guy doesn't sound like headline news.

Huh? Are you saying this isn't headline news? I saw the headlines. I'm sure you did too. A Hispanic guy killed a black guy and it is headline news, which doesn't really jibe with either point you are trying to make.

Anyway, the real story is this kid got murdered by some moron and nobody did anything about it. They still haven't.

Whether or not it's racism, I don't know, but I know if this was a dead white teenager, this Hispanic guy would be in the slammer right now.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Table 5

With his name and the fact that it's in Florida, I kept picturing an older jewish guy.

I think the name was Zimmerman, which happens to be one of the names that is often jewish, yet sometimes is not. Of course there is that chance with any so called jewish name, Zimmerman seems to stand out for me as one that is never for sure jewish. I really don't know the history of that name or why that is.

I too thought for sure it was some old Jewish guy, but I can't tell much from that photo except for that it is not an old guy.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Ta-Nehisi Coates's blog has had a series of great little posts about this incident. There is some interesting history of race relations in the area, so as always, these tensions run deep.

From my view, the act of shooting Martin was an example of Zimmerman's lack of respect for human life, not an example of his racism. However, the assumptions Zimmerman made regarding Martin prior to engaging him in the confrontation were undeniably race-based.

Probably, and I don't know Florida well. I do have to say that there are neighborhoods around here that are completely segregated. Before I moved out to a little more normalcy in the suburbs, I lived in a nice, but not fancy older neighborhood. It was 100% white. 2 blocks down, there was another neighborhood, a very rough neighborhood that was 100% black. Every kid in that neighborhood went to the crappy public school. In my neighbourhood, the kids either go to private school or you move to the suburbs. Kids in the other neighborhood shoot each other often and it is not uncommon for shootings to occur while the kids are getting off school buses. It sucks its that way. There are plenty of black families in the suburbs and other areas that are integrated. In parts of the city though, it is 100% segregated.

While we lived there, we had a female, black cop knock on our door said that there was a lot of gang activity heating up in the other neighborhood, and told us that if we see someone who "doesn't belong " to call the police right away. Is that racial profiling? Sure. But race is a factor that can't be ignored.

It brings up a lot of interesting moral dilemmas. I was born and raised in Canada, grew up pretty much ignoring race and calling racism evil. But it is not always easy to judge others when the situation is so different. Does it make the black schools crappier when the weller off white people don't send their kids there? Yes. Do I feel bad about not sending my kids there and contributing to the problem? Yep. Am I going to make a stand and send my kids to a school that pretty much sucks, where they'd be about the only white kids, and it is not safe? No way.

These are just the situations and considerations you have to consider here. Gated communities are not common here, so I've never lived in one, but I know that in Florida they are hard to avoid in the decent school districts. You don't always have a choice where you are going to live. If you have a good job and don't want to leave, you look for a house in a safe neighborhood, good schools and good commute. If gated communities are the only choice, then you do what you do.

I am totally against shooting the guy by the way, and think that the guy should be in jail. But some of the judgements in this thread are a little off base when you don't know how different things are here. Also, much of the segregation in some of these areas is not about white people keeping the blacks out. It is by both races choice really.

[HPLovecraft]

Apparently the kid's girlfriend was on the phone with him at the time he was confronted by Mr. Zimmer Man, and will be a key witness in showing the kid was killed in cold blood.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/20/justic...html?hpt=hp_t3

Speaking on the phone shortly before he was shot, Martin told the girl that someone was following him and that he was trying to get away, Crump said.

The girl said that, during the phone call, she heard someone ask Martin what he was doing and heard Martin ask why the person was following him, Crump said. The girl then got the impression that there was an altercation in which the earpiece fell out of Martin's ear and the connection went dead, Crump said.

Based on what she heard, the girl believes that Martin was pushed, said Crump, who added that the girl did not hear any gunfire.

Phone records show Martin was on the phone with her much of the day, including around the time of the killing, Crump said. He argued that if Martin were really "up to no good," he wouldn't have been chatting with his friend on the phone.

[ . . . ]

Natalie Jackson, another attorney for the Martin family, said police had not interviewed the girl.

Sanford Police Sgt. David Morgenstern said "at the onset, we asked any and all witnesses with information to come forward."

He would not say say whether the department has contacted the girl.

Also, this is the kind of police work these guys over there are doing:

A police report describes Zimmerman as a white male

The police thought Zimmerman was white. Not really fair to blame the media, when they probably assumed the police report was correct.

. . . Police say they have not charged Zimmerman, 28, because they have no evidence to contradict his story that he shot in self-defense.

[ . . . ]

Smith wrote that Zimmerman stated, "I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me." Martin's family insists it was Trayvon Martin who was heard yelling for help.

Three witnesses who were nearby have said it was Martin who was heard screaming for help in the 911 call placed by Zimmerman, Crump said.

This is either some really, really lazy police work, or something more.

[CaptainCrunch]

I was reading today that the Justice Department was going to do their own investigation into this, its not over for Zimmerman yet, the danger now is that this whole thing has become politicized and it will be impossible to have any kind of a fair trial.

[Lt.Spears]

I can only imagine what will happen to the police force when this inevitably blows up in their faces and the guy gets charged with murder.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Lt.Spears

I can only imagine what will happen to the police force when this inevitably blows up in their faces and the guy gets charged with murder.

Nothing?

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I think the name was Zimmerman, which happens to be one of the names that is often jewish, yet sometimes is not.

I just assumed he was jewish since he has the same name as Bob Dylan. And I don't really question Bob Dylan (well, apart from all his choices in the 80s).

[HPLovecraft]

Well, looks like something actually has happened! Or, at least temporarily.

The Sanford Police Chief has temporarily stepped down.

He added, "I do this in the hopes of restoring some semblance of calm to the city, which has been in turmoil for several weeks."

Or, in other words, until it hopefully all blows over.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

That is ridiculous.

Man kills innocent kid. Cops support random murder. turmoil erupts. Police chief takes a few weeks off under the guise of "In light of these events, I have stepped down! cough temporarily cough" so that he doesn't have to deal with the ####storm.

Makes perfect sense to me.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

That is ridiculous.

Man kills innocent kid. Cops support random murder. turmoil erupts. Police chief takes a few weeks off under the guise of "In light of these events, I have stepped down! cough temporarily cough" so that he doesn't have to deal with the ####storm.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Florida, the US's ######ed inbred cousin

[nik-]

#### like this is why riots happen.

[FlamingLonghorn]

The State attorney also removed himself from the case. It has been taken over by a Jacksonville State attorney.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by nik-

#### like this is why riots happen.

Dude, this place is totally ripe for a riot.
I mean, they didn't win a Stanley Cup last last night, so chances are the population is ready to riot at the drop of a hat.

[tjinaz]

Is Hispanic from a Multiracial family. This should be interesting. I don't believe the Hispanics ever oppressed the blacks so this is nothing like the civil rights era.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...black-teenager

And now Obama is pulling the race card. This could very well blow up in the NAACPs face. I agree that when this started and Zimmerman was listed as a "White Male" it gained momentum. Now that is it a Hispanic vs Black it is completely different. There could very well be riots but for the wrong reasons.

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2...on-118439.html

[valo403]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

Is Hispanic from a Multiracial family. This should be interesting. I don't believe the Hispanics ever oppressed the blacks so this is nothing like the civil rights era.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...black-teenager

And now Obama is pulling the race card. This could very well blow up in the NAACPs face. I agree that when this started and Zimmerman was listed as a "White Male" it gained momentum. Now that is it a Hispanic vs Black it is completely different. There could very well be riots but for the wrong reasons.

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2...on-118439.html

How exactly is Obama pulling the race card by making a factual statement? What an idiotic claim.

[tjinaz]

"My main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. You know, if I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon," Obama said.

This is not pulling the race card? Do you recall any other president bringing up "your kids look like mine" when tragedy occurs? He is saying I am one of you, my kids are black and if I had a son he would look like him. It is already a race issue, why make it more. Just say this has the appearance of a race related crime and I have my best people working on it. There is no reason to further frame this with race. Isn't the goal of race relations to be fair no matter what the appearance? When you are saying you look like me you appear to be taking a side.

You would think he would have learned his lesson from the Professor incident when he called the cops stupid before he even knew what happened because the professor was black. Now with the shooter actually being Hispanic... he can only lose, now he has the appearance of siding with one minority over the other.

[CaptainCrunch]

Maybe Obama should invite both parties to the white house for a beer to straignten things out

If the Justice Department is getting involved, maybe the President shouldn't be getting involved.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

Is Hispanic from a Multiracial family. This should be interesting. I don't believe the Hispanics ever oppressed the blacks so this is nothing like the civil rights era.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...black-teenager

And now Obama is pulling the race card. This could very well blow up in the NAACPs face. I agree that when this started and Zimmerman was listed as a "White Male" it gained momentum. Now that is it a Hispanic vs Black it is completely different. There could very well be riots but for the wrong reasons.

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2...on-118439.html

I am wondering what makes it different now that it is "hispanic vs black." It's not only white people that are capable of racism. And if it turns out that it somehow was race related, it wouldn't be overly surprising.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

Now that is it a Hispanic vs Black it is completely different. There could very well be riots but for the wrong reasons.

I don't know if you are just trying to spin this, or comically missing the point.

All the outrage here is aimed at the useless, racist police force doing nothing about this kid's murder. The cops are the villains.

Maybe it's just me, but the "Hispanics vs Blacks" angle has a few overtones of its own.