We'll always have actors. Celebrity plays too important a role in the entertainment industry. There's a reason producers pay a-list actors so much money when there are just as skilled but less famous actors who could play the role. Or look at animated films. There's no reason the voice acting has to be performed by Hollywood celebrities - there are unknown voice actors who could do the job as well or better. In fact this is exactly what was done 30 years ago (look at the cast of the Little Mermaid or Beauty and the Beast). But Hollywood A-listers are cast in major animated movies today so their celebrity can be levereged to promote the movies on the talk show circuit.
I agree that we'll always have celebrities and actors, but I think things will change somewhat with how that works.
Andy Serkis is the first motion capture star, and some actors are now really better known (and likely better paid) for their voice work than their on-screen work.
I suspect characters themselves will take bigger roles as celebrities, doing more promotion "off-screen". It's also beneficial for the companies to invest in characters-as-celebrities. For one thing because they're something a company can own forever and they never do anything independently to harm their careers and never grow old.
The role of the traditional film actor might grow a lot smaller.
Last edited by Itse; 07-14-2017 at 09:51 AM.
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You can't tell me Aladdin would have been better with generic voice actors for Genie and Iago than Robin Williams and Gilbert Gottfried.
Why not?
The fact that it was Robin Williams and Gilbert Gottfriend made no difference to me. Aladdin would have been equally enjoyable if I didn't know who was doing the voices behind them.
Then again, I'm an entertainment pleb. When I watch a movie I watch it for the plot and characters, not the actors behind it. I couldn't name even the lead actor/actress from most of the movies I've watched, much less the voice actors.
You can't tell me Aladdin would have been better with generic voice actors for Genie and Iago than Robin Williams and Gilbert Gottfried.
No. But most Hollywood actors who voice characters in Disney and Pixar movies these days are not Robin Williams. They're clearly not cast on their voice talents alone. Celebrity drives Hollywood, even in animated movies. Technology isn't going to change that.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
No. But most Hollywood actors who voice characters in Disney and Pixar movies these days are not Robin Williams. They're clearly not cast on their voice talents alone. Celebrity drives Hollywood, even in animated movies. Technology isn't going to change that.
Agreed. People get attached to their favorite actors and actresses. That's not going to change. Hollywood was built on having massive fan followings. If that wasn't the case, all movies would just cast unknowns for cheap rather than go with A list actors.
Agreed. People get attached to their favorite actors and actresses. That's not going to change. Hollywood was built on having massive fan followings. If that wasn't the case, all movies would just cast unknowns for cheap rather than go with A list actors.
Yet all the biggest franchises (Marvel, Bond, Star Wars) are ones where the fans follow the franchise, not the actors.
The current Spider-Man is the 3rd in recent years, and people keep coming. Daniel Craig was the 7th Bond, and they're now making Star Wars films with the only constantly recurring characters being the robots that can be played by CGI.
Yet all the biggest franchises (Marvel, Bond, Star Wars) are ones where the fans follow the franchise, not the actors.
And yet Harrison Ford was paid a reported $15 milllion for The Force Awakens. Robert Downey Jr is paid piles of money every time he puts on the Iron Man suit, including $40 million for his part in Age of Ultron. Just try to replace Chris Hemsworth at this point with a cheaper, unknown actor to play Thor and you'll find out whether or not fans care about actors.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
It will certainly make for some interesting controversy when they begin to cast white actors as minorities and use cgi to alter their character's ethnicity and skin tone. It'll take whitewashing to a whole new level.
And yet Harrison Ford was paid a reported $15 milllion for The Force Awakens. Robert Downey Jr is paid piles of money every time he puts on the Iron Man suit, including $40 million for his part in Age of Ultron. Just try to replace Chris Hemsworth at this point with a cheaper, unknown actor to play Thor and you'll find out whether or not fans care about actors.
I think the answer would be: they care about some, and some don't.
Coming back to the point which we agree on; there will still be an interest in star actors and celebrities. I think things will change, and have already changed in fact, to a direction where star actors are less important to the success of a film. Doesn't mean they won't go away totally.
Then of course there's the issue that most actors are not the stars. I think the thing we'll miss the most are the great support actors.
I think the answer would be: they care about some, and some don't.
Coming back to the point which we agree on; there will still be an interest in star actors and celebrities. I think things will change, and have already changed in fact, to a direction where star actors are less important to the success of a film. Doesn't mean they won't go away totally.
Then of course there's the issue that most actors are not the stars. I think the thing we'll miss the most are the great support actors.
I am interested in exploring this further...
In a world in which it comes to the point where digitally generated characters are indistinguishable from live action, a new kind of star could theoretically be an avatar—an actor who supplies voice and motion to a motion capture figure. He could still be a celebrity that drives a film, but one who is also able to live a life of relative anonymity. Andy Serkis, but with an entirely different, consistent appearance that people recognise.
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
I must be the only person who was a little thrown off by the CGI Tarkin. I mean it was close enough that it was fine, but I don't understand how anyone thought it was so good they actually didn't know it was CGI for a while. I was very aware I wasn't looking at a real person every time they showed him, I thought it was obvious.
I'm sure the technology will only get better and maybe one day it'll actually be virtually identical with the real thing. But we're not there yet. Currently it takes away from the immersion for me when they do that in live action movies with what's supposed to be a human.
I must be the only person who was a little thrown off by the CGI Tarkin. I mean it was close enough that it was fine, but I don't understand how anyone thought it was so good they actually didn't know it was CGI for a while. I was very aware I wasn't looking at a real person every time they showed him, I thought it was obvious.
I totally agree. It was fairly obvious, but a massive improvement over any motion capture human before it. Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within was released in 2001—a little over 15 years ago. I think it is fair to expect that in another 15 years motion-capture figures will be practically indistinguishable from live action.
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I'm sure the technology will only get better and maybe one day it'll actually be virtually identical with the real thing. But we're not there yet. Currently it takes away from the immersion for me when they do that in live action movies with what's supposed to be a human.
I can't imagine that it will always be that way. When that day comes, how will it affect the industry?
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
In a world in which it comes to the point where digitally generated characters are indistinguishable from live action, a new kind of star could theoretically be an avatar—an actor who supplies voice and motion to a motion capture figure. He could still be a celebrity that drives a film, but one who is also able to live a life of relative anonymity. Andy Serkis, but with an entirely different, consistent appearance that people recognise.
Anonymity defeats the whole purpose of celebrity, which is to engage the public's interest in the private lives of entertainers. People want to know who actors are dating. Where they go for vacation. What they eat to keep their skin so smooth. Fans want to read their tweets, see pictures of them outside restaurants, and feel some connection on a personal level. They want more than the performances on screen. A lot more.
This stuff is essential to modern celebrity. Entertainers devote tremendous time and energy to cultivating a public profile. They hire highly-paid professionals as publicists. And now, more than ever, celebrity is crucuial to promoting entertainment properties. Even novelists, who used to toil in anonymity, now must craft and maintain fan-friendly personas on public media with daily blog postings in order to build a brand and a relationship with fans.
Unless we see a massive decline in the public appetite for celebrity, I don't see artificial entertainment characters as anything more than a marginal curiosity.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Entertainers devote tremendous time and energy to cultivating a public profile. They hire highly-paid professionals as publicists. And now, more than ever, celebrity is crucuial to promoting entertainment properties. Even novelists, who used to toil in anonymity, now must craft and maintain fan-friendly personas on public media with daily blog postings in order to build a brand and a relationship with fans.
In some fields, it's better to be a "media influencer" than an actual competent professional.
I must be the only person who was a little thrown off by the CGI Tarkin. I mean it was close enough that it was fine, but I don't understand how anyone thought it was so good they actually didn't know it was CGI for a while. I was very aware I wasn't looking at a real person every time they showed him, I thought it was obvious.
I'm sure the technology will only get better and maybe one day it'll actually be virtually identical with the real thing. But we're not there yet. Currently it takes away from the immersion for me when they do that in live action movies with what's supposed to be a human.
Did you know Tarkin was CGI going into the movie?
Even if you didn't know, but were familiar with the character and original actor I think you would notice right away and then focus on it.
I watched the entire movie and didn't notice Tarkin was CGI. The Princess Leia character stood out to me right away.
Now I hadn't seen the original Star Wars movies since I was a kid, and I didn't even remember the Tarkin character so that would have contributed to it.
Since I discovered Tarkin was CGI, I've asked some people about it, and they were oblivious to the CGI as well.
I noticed Tarkin immediately. Kurt Russel in Guardians of the Galaxy was better, but still clearly CGI to me. The uncanny smoothness is the giveaway. I think some people have stronger face-processing software than others.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
The fact that it was Robin Williams and Gilbert Gottfriend made no difference to me. Aladdin would have been equally enjoyable if I didn't know who was doing the voices behind them.
Then again, I'm an entertainment pleb. When I watch a movie I watch it for the plot and characters, not the actors behind it. I couldn't name even the lead actor/actress from most of the movies I've watched, much less the voice actors.
In most cases I would completely agree with you. However, in this case, Robin Williams WAS the character. He created a large portion of it. His constant ad-libbing completely changed the role, and the movie, and the creators reworked it to incorporate his brilliance.
To say that Robin Williams did the 'voice' for Aladdin would be a travesty of injustice.
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It will be interesting to see Will Smith's version of the Genie. I can't imagine that it will be much like Williams (which is probably a good thing since Williams did such an iconic performance).
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Even if you didn't know, but were familiar with the character and original actor I think you would notice right away and then focus on it.
I watched the entire movie and didn't notice Tarkin was CGI. The Princess Leia character stood out to me right away.
Now I hadn't seen the original Star Wars movies since I was a kid, and I didn't even remember the Tarkin character so that would have contributed to it.
Since I discovered Tarkin was CGI, I've asked some people about it, and they were oblivious to the CGI as well.
Nah, I grew up loving Star Wars but I didn't like TFA and thus did no research into R1, didn't even think I'd see it actually. Trust me I'm not observant about plenty of stuff, not trying to claim otherwise, but that's at least one that jumped out to me right away.
They did a good job with it and given it's an immediate prequel of a 40 year old movie, the need to do that made sense. It worked just fine. But "good job" and actually thinking he was real is quite a gap to me. I just don't think we're there yet (I know that wasn't the OP's point, but I'm just saying).
The Princess Leia character stood out to me right away. 
