10-29-2016, 04:00 PM
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#21
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Some kinda newsbreaker!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Learning Phaneufs skating style
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist
Can you do that? Or is that a wink wink nudge nudge transaction? Something would have to come the other way
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They haven't officially said you can or can't for the upcoming expansion draft, but the previous NHL expansion drafts had many examples of teams giving up picks and prospects for expansion teams not to select exposed players.
It might be to Vegas' advantage to allow it, as they could probably extort picks from teams not to select players they actually have little interest in.
For example, they may agree to take a 3rd round pick not to select Jokipakka because they really want Ferland or Shinkaruk more. Big win for Vegas in that scenario. Get the player they want and a 3rd round pick for free.
Last edited by sureLoss; 10-29-2016 at 04:03 PM.
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10-29-2016, 05:03 PM
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#22
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sureLoss
They haven't officially said you can or can't for the upcoming expansion draft, but the previous NHL expansion drafts had many examples of teams giving up picks and prospects for expansion teams not to select exposed players.
It might be to Vegas' advantage to allow it, as they could probably extort picks from teams not to select players they actually have little interest in.
For example, they may agree to take a 3rd round pick not to select Jokipakka because they really want Ferland or Shinkaruk more. Big win for Vegas in that scenario. Get the player they want and a 3rd round pick for free.
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I can really see them leveraging alot when it comes down to the Goaltending. especially Pittsburgh & Matt Murray assuming everything remains equal. I could see Pitts giving up 2nd or even late first for Murray. Then with this new rule on the 48 window for FA's giving Bishop a massive contract.
If this team is going to win first few years in the league they will do so on strong goaltending and well rounded defence. Names like Trouba, Fowler, Ekholm, Alzner, Jack Johnson, Connor Murphy and Petrovic. They are going to have a collection of 3-4 Defenceman
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Originally Posted by oilboy2
This deal is DONE, im not sure what the worry is. Heatly is an Oiler, just some paperwork to get done. This isnt another Nylander incident
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10-29-2016, 06:11 PM
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#23
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weitz
Jokipkka might be one of the better D men available. Might take a good deal not to take him.
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Jokipaka? Who's been in and out of the lineup so far?
As fans of our teams we really overvalue some of our guys. Last 2 summer Flames have let go Schlemko and Nakladal who most fans wanted back badly. They were late late summer, low dollar signings.
As far as Jokipakka goes, he won't be one of the better dman available. There will be better guys with more potential available then him.
http://planmyteam.com/NHL/Expansion
Do this exercise and you'll see some solid options at D. Of course things will change but I really don't think the Flames will lose a dman. Expansion draft comes at a decent time, Flames loss will be insignificant.
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10-29-2016, 06:27 PM
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#24
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First Line Centre
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Fans always tend to overvalue home-grown prospects in favour of imported young players.
Chiasson has played admirably so far, and adequate on the top line. What if that top line clicks and he sticks for most of the season? Surely a top line player is more valuable than bottom 6, and certainly more difficult to replace.
Is it conceivable that Chiasson is protected over Ferland?
(For the record, I would be very reluctant to expose Ferland)
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10-29-2016, 09:06 PM
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#25
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Franchise Player
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Keep in mind that a team not only can trade a draft pick for Vegas not to select said player, but a team can also give a draft pick in order for a team to purposefully select a said player.
For instance, Flames can offer a 2nd or a 3rd (or whatever) for Vegas not to select Jokipakka. They can also offer up a 2nd or a third to Vegas in return for them taking Stajan (not that I would do that or even recommend it).
Vegas has a tonne of cap room and will need to take a couple of bad contracts (or sign them in UFA). There really isn't anyone on the Flames I feel should get that. The only negative (and arguable) bad contract for next season is Stajan. I am sure there will be some teams trying to get Vegas to take their bad contract for a sweetener.
At any rate, I am really not worried about anyone we could potentially lose this time around (assuming Ferland is the last protected spot). Next time around, Flames could potentially lose a significant piece if some of the youth progress like Tkachuk, Jankowski, Mangiapane, Kylington, Andersson, Hickey (depending on the timing of course), etc.
It will still suck to lose a player as that player will more than likely be useful (Jokipakka is a useful piece right now with some upside left), but won't be the end of the world. Next expansion will probably make me a lot more nervous, and I hope it comes next year (though I doubt) before the Flames find themselves losing a player they really don't want to lose.
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10-29-2016, 11:43 PM
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#26
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Franchise Player
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We are only going to lose one player. This team should have enough organizational depth that losing someone like Shinkaruk is nothing. Jokipakka would need a contract extension first and a lot of that may depend on where the Flames sit on deadline day.
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10-30-2016, 09:58 AM
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#27
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
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That 7th spot will be interesting....Shinkaruk may be the best asset. I think there is also a chance that Versteeg gets extended, and he is the 7th Fwd.
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10-30-2016, 10:17 AM
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#28
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Franchise Player
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It is a long season of course, and things can change. But as of right now, there is absolutely no way they go the 8 skater route and protect Jokipakka over Brouwer and Frolik.
They are both far more valuable than Jokipakka.
Again, as of now, I think the 7th forward is definitely Ferland. However, it is certainly conceivable that either Chiasson or Shinkaruk shows enough over the course of the season to grab that spot.
Regardless, the loss to the Flames will be relatively minimal and will not derail their growth.
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10-30-2016, 11:21 AM
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#29
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Self Imposed Exile
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Calgary
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I hope this isn't too much of a derail, but which team has the most to loose and why?
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10-30-2016, 12:20 PM
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#30
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kavvy
I hope this isn't too much of a derail, but which team has the most to loose and why?
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Columbus because of stupid NMC on bad players
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames
Before you call me a pessimist or a downer, the Flames made me this way. Blame them.
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10-30-2016, 12:33 PM
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#31
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Celebrated Square Root Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kavvy
I hope this isn't too much of a derail, but which team has the most to loose and why?
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The Flames. They started way too tight under a new system but now they've loosened up and are rolling.
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10-30-2016, 01:22 PM
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#32
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kavvy
I hope this isn't too much of a derail, but which team has the most to loose and why?
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Either a team with two goalies, like the Penguins who currently need to protect Fleury and therefore exposing Murray.
Or a team with 4+ good defenders. The Ducks in particular are screwed with Beiska and his NMC. They can buy him out or ask him to waive/accept trade, but if that doesn't happen they still need to protect:
Beiska
Lindholm
Vatanen
Fowler
Manson
Despres
Something probably gives before the draft, but right now they have some tough choices to make.
And then a team with too many NMC could also take a hit. Columbus has NMC on Dubinsky, Foligno, Hartnell and Clarkson. But they also have Jones, Savard, Johnson and Murray to protect as defenders.
Hartnell waived his NMC for a trade, Clarkson may not care. If they both waive, Columbus gets some flexibility, but really if they don't (and nothing changes) they are screwed. The 7-3-1 exposes a good defensemen and they don't even really have the option of going 8-1 as a player like Saad would be exposed if the NMC didn't waive.
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10-30-2016, 01:42 PM
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#33
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Some kinda newsbreaker!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Learning Phaneufs skating style
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Clarkson and Depres might get the 60 game injury/career ending injury exception. Sounds like both are seriously injured:
Quote:
* Players with potential career-ending injuries who have missed more than the previous 60 consecutive games (or who otherwise have been confirmed to have a career-threatening injury) may not be used to satisfy a club's player exposure requirements, unless approval is received from the NHL. Such players also may be deemed exempt from selection by the League.
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and FWIW Hartnell said he won't waive his NMC any longer and wants to finish his career in Columbus.
Last edited by sureLoss; 10-30-2016 at 01:47 PM.
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10-30-2016, 05:43 PM
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#34
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Menace
That 7th spot will be interesting....Shinkaruk may be the best asset. I think there is also a chance that Versteeg gets extended, and he is the 7th Fwd.
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Extending and protecting Versteeg would be poor roster management.
Even if the Flames do give him a contract extension, I can't see them protecting him for the expansion draft. If you leave him unprotected and Vegas takes him, you thank your lucky stars that they didn't take one of the younger guys who were available.
__________________
Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
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10-30-2016, 05:55 PM
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#35
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kavvy
I hope this isn't too much of a derail, but which team has the most to loose and why?
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Teams with a lot of depth stand to lose the most. Tampa and Florida will lose a good player for sure.
Ducks as mentioned. Minnesota has 5 decent D-men.
If Nashville decides to protect four D, they could lose a guy like Colin Wilson.
Teams like Edmonton and Calgary stand to lose the least. They each only have 3 defence and 6 forwards worth protecting.
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11-01-2016, 08:39 AM
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#36
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First Line Centre
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So you have to protect someone that has a NMC, regardless of if you want to or not?
__________________
Resident beer snob
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11-01-2016, 08:51 AM
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#37
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus Jack
So you have to protect someone that has a NMC, regardless of if you want to or not?
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Yes, unless you can get the player to agree to waive his NMC (the same as if you wanted to trade him in any other situation).
There has been discussion between the league and PA as to whether or not a player with a partial no-trade clause attached to his no-move clause will be automatically protected. I don't know if a ruling has been made for those situations yet.
__________________
Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
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11-01-2016, 09:23 AM
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#38
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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I wouldn't be surprised if the Flames exposed someone like Frolik in this process. A free agent signing with 3/5 of his contract done is essentially at the crossroads in his contract (first 60% benefits the Flames more than the last 40%).
Is he washed up? Of course not, but he makes good coin and should do less in years 4 and 5 then he's done in years 1-3.
He likely wouldn't get taken anyway, and the Flames could add their biggest worry between Poirier and Shinkaruk to the list.
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11-01-2016, 09:30 AM
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#39
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First Line Centre
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I think for Vegas Shinkaruk is the most attractive option on the Flames. They are selecting 29 players, then signing free agents. They only need 23 on an NHL roster. That means at least 6, but likely more of their choices are going to be guys who can be sent to the AHL. Without a clear cut NHL player available, I would say they go for the forward prospect over a depth D in Jokipakka.
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11-01-2016, 09:30 AM
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#40
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I believe in the Jays.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
I wouldn't be surprised if the Flames exposed someone like Frolik in this process.
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... you wouldn't be surprised if the Flames exposed the guy whose currently 2nd in team scoring, probably our best defensive winger, and a major part of our PK (and still on the right side of 30)?
I would be hugely surprised.
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