[Game Takes] Leafs 4 Flames 2

[Bingo]

Game Takes: Leafs 4 Flames 2

- Flames start slowly as Leafs jump into a quick 1-0 lead
- Two quick goals put the Flames up and they dominate for a spell but can't finish
- Rough third in terms of play and bounces and it's 1-7-0 in their last 8
- Giordano with 500th point
- probably best game we've seen from Joakim Nordstrom

[DeluxeMoustache]

I agree, it’s almost comical how the Flames are finding ways to lose

I will challenge the goaltending comment on the first goal. Not because of who the goalie is, but because of the shot specifics. The chart showing ‘worst goalies’ in another thread showed that unblocked shots (I’m assuming this means clear view by goalie) had expected sv% around .950. Now picture these shots being a mix of various distances from goalie, various amounts of time to aim, and various shooters with varying degrees of success placing the shot where you intend. That shot was made with time and space, and amazingly well placed. I can’t wait for the data to get to the granularity that shows expected save percentage on that shot, given placement and distance, because based on its particulars, it is *not* an expected save.

That 10-20 foot range is the most dangerous spot on the ice. It’s where the goalie has to rely most on his basic positioning being adequate. Too close of a shot to allow the goalie to react to shot positioning. (I may create a thread about this, give me time)

Second line: I’m ready to start a rumour that neophyte GM Tre agreed to clauses in the contracts of 13 and 23 that stipulate they must be linemates

And man, despite Tkachuk’s mild advantage in terms of shots, etc. he was absolutely terrible on the boards in his own end. A really frustrating player to watch, probably because they interview him so much and he has been really way better on the mic than on the ice

[1qqaaz]

I didn't know that Rittich made that comment after the game.
If he's not traded, maybe he won't walk as a UFA after all.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

A really frustrating player to watch, probably because they interview him so much and he has been really way better on the mic than on the ice

This team needs more Bret Harts. Kind of lame on the mic, but exceptional workers.

[ricardodw]

Dillon Dube and Andrew Mangiapane should both be top six wingers on this team

Your comment on Dube and Mangiapane needing to be on the top-6 on this Flames teams brings back memories of 2009-2010 team that somehow got the cap messed up.

On that team Iginla, Langkow, Bourque, Jokininen Glencross were the top-5

this year teams equivalent: Iginla = Gaudreau, Langkow = Lindholm, Monahan = Jokininen, Bourque= Tkachuk and Backlund= Glencross.

Boyd and Dawes = Mangiapane and Dube.

I remember wanting Dawes and Boyd to succeed and was disappointed that Boyd was not given a "full" chance.

After they were gone it stuck home that their being in the top 6 was a clear sign of a messed up use of the salary cap.

On that Flame team Bouwmester, Regehr, Phanuef/White and Sarich ate up a lot of cap as do Gio, Hanifin, Andersson and Tanev on this year's version.

[Strange Brew]

The last two games are the kind of games where in the middle of an extended bad stretch in along season, you'd say the team is starting to come out of it and the results will come. Unfortunately it's just too late now.

And I agree with your comments about the continued insistences on playing Ritchie with Gaudreau and Monahan. At this point, nothing about that line makes any sense if the goal is to win games. The one thing is, Sutter doesn't have the history of watching two of those players fail together since about February 2019. But I don't know what he sees in Ritchie there, unless it's simply to make the other lines stronger.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I didn't know that Rittich made that comment after the game.
If he's not traded, maybe he won't walk as a UFA after all.

Will he sign in Calgary at the Backup rate of 1.5M ? Calgary is not a team that is set for a 1A / 1B

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Will he sign in Calgary at the Backup rate of 1.5M ? Calgary is not a team that is set for a 1A / 1B

Exactly. This team will need to find money somewhere again this offseason, and backup goalie is an obvious choice.

[DeluxeMoustache]

So a question to ask is if the Flames go for the number one plus unreliable backup model, is Markstrom durable enough to play 65-70 games?

He has played in exactly 60 twice, and he was on the right side of 30 then

It’s a concern

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Your comment on Dube and Mangiapane needing to be on the top-6 on this Flames teams brings back memories of 2009-2010 team that somehow got the cap messed up.

On that team Iginla, Langkow, Bourque, Jokininen Glencross were the top-5

this year teams equivalent: Iginla = Gaudreau, Langkow = Lindholm, Monahan = Jokininen, Bourque= Tkachuk and Backlund= Glencross.

Boyd and Dawes = Mangiapane and Dube.

I remember wanting Dawes and Boyd to succeed and was disappointed that Boyd was not given a "full" chance.

After they were gone it stuck home that their being in the top 6 was a clear sign of a messed up use of the salary cap.

On that Flame team Bouwmester, Regehr, Phanuef/White and Sarich ate up a lot of cap as do Gio, Hanifin, Andersson and Tanev on this year's version.

Not sure I agree with any of that.

Some coaches load up the lines, some try to balance them out ... it doesn't have a lot to do with the cap as they're already on the roster.

Sutter wants to roll four lines so he balances things out so his fourth line is very good, but his second line is taking a beating for it.

Plus I'd put Dube and Mangiapane in a different conversation than Nigel Dawes or Dustin Boyd.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

So a question to ask is if the Flames go for the number one plus unreliable backup model, is Markstrom durable enough to play 65-70 games?

He has played in exactly 60 twice, and he was on the right side of 30 then

It’s a concern

Yeah it is but one most teams face.

If you go 55-25ish split it seems manageable but still unknown. Though the last 2 shortened seasons should help going forward.

LOTS of G's going to be available this off season too.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Your comment on Dube and Mangiapane needing to be on the top-6 on this Flames teams brings back memories of 2009-2010 team that somehow got the cap messed up.

On that team Iginla, Langkow, Bourque, Jokininen Glencross were the top-5

this year teams equivalent: Iginla = Gaudreau, Langkow = Lindholm, Monahan = Jokininen, Bourque= Tkachuk and Backlund= Glencross.

Boyd and Dawes = Mangiapane and Dube.

I remember wanting Dawes and Boyd to succeed and was disappointed that Boyd was not given a "full" chance.

After they were gone it stuck home that their being in the top 6 was a clear sign of a messed up use of the salary cap.

On that Flame team Bouwmester, Regehr, Phanuef/White and Sarich ate up a lot of cap as do Gio, Hanifin, Andersson and Tanev on this year's version.

Boyd and Dawes were basically out of the NHL after they were done in Calgary.

Mangiapane and Dube are nothing like these two and should be in the top 6.

I’m not really seeing the advantages to playing every line equally right now as we have just gotten worse under Sutter. Didn’t think that was possible but here we are.

I feel like now is a time that the coach should be mixing up the lines and experimenting. And when I say this I mean completely different looks because they seem so adamant about keeping certain players together it’s absolutely maddening.

It isn’t working right now so why are we continuing to throw out the same lines and pairings?

[Brick]

The Flames just don't have the horses.

Lack of a gamebreaker player does them in most games.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure I agree with any of that.

Some coaches load up the lines, some try to balance them out ... it doesn't have a lot to do with the cap as they're already on the roster.

Sutter wants to roll four lines so he balances things out so his fourth line is very good, but his second line is taking a beating for it.

Plus I'd put Dube and Mangiapane in a different conversation than Nigel Dawes or Dustin Boyd.

Dawes had 14 goals and 32 pts in 66 games and had a +1.

Boyd only had 19 pts in 60 games but was a solid +5


They are not far off with what Mangiapane and Dube are putting out on the stats line.


Boyd was 23 and Dawes 24 when they were run out of town (and basically the NHL)... Mangiapane is 24 and Dube 22..

Yes I agree that Mangiapane and Dube look to be good enough players with potential, but I thought the same with Boyd and Dawes and Moss and Jamie Lundmark.