[Rumour] Islanders willing to trade this year's 1st for more immediate help

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

I'd offer them Hudler + Wideman + 2nd for 5th overall + salary dump (if necessary). I think that fits the bill pretty well as far as "immediate help".

Of course you would offer that. Non-core pieces for the 5th. It would take Gio.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Just reading the last few posts...

Backlund + Hudler + is not even close

But the Oilers would trade their pick (a higher pick) for G Reinhart.

Someone else thinks it would take Gio + (the chances of the #5 pick becoming as valuable as Gio would be about 20% IMO)

And finally Kane +... Kane is a consistent 30 goal scorer, power forward with blazing speed. And it would have to be Kane PLUS?

If the #5 pick turned into a Gio or a Kane, that would be a home run.

If the #5 pick turned into Backlund, that would be ok (not the end of the world). If the #5 pick turned into Backlund + Hudler + a pick, that would be a home run.

The amount that fans over-value picks is truly amazing

So you would be wiling to move the Flames #4 pick for the equivalent of Backlund + a guy any team could have picked up before last season for free?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

So you would be wiling to move the Flames #4 pick for the equivalent of Backlund + a guy any team could have picked up before last season for free?

The Flames are rebuilding - I would only move the #4 pick for massive overpayment.

My point was that the disparity in offers was rather immense

Plus the talk of Gio and Kane was crazy

[Enoch Root]

someone else mentioned Kesler - I would be extremely pleased to see the Nucks move Kesler for the #5 pick

[djsFlames]

Backlund would be more valuable to them than Wideman.

Obviously any one of Brodie or Giordano gets it done, but we can't offer them that.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Plus the talk of Gio and Kane was crazy

I see that as realistic.

Not saying it would happen though.

[OzSome]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Do people obsessed with trading Glencross for some reason not realize he has an NMC? There is absolutely no chance whatsoever that he waives to go to the Islanders.

Not just Glencross. CP people are just obsessed in trading somebody just for the heck of it.

As for Glencross, i agreed that people just want to get rid of him for whatever reason. His contract is not that high and when healthy and ornery the guy can contribute.

We don't need to trade for the Islanders' first round pick this season.

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Of course you would offer that. Non-core pieces for the 5th. It would take Gio.

Lets see. Seguin (2nd overall) + Peverley + Ryan Button (3rd round) for Eriksson (non core piece) + Fraser (FA) + J. Morrow (late first) + Smith (3rd round).

So Hudler and Eriksson are at least comparable, probably both were/are non-core pieces but talented wingers who have proven they can score.

Hudler career : 0.56ppg
Eriksson career: 0.70ppg

Dallas also added some prospects: former late 1st rounder, 3rd rounder. But they also got a former 3rd rounder back as well as Peverley.

We would be sending a veteran defenseman just a couple seasons removed from playing in the all-star game as well as a 2nd round pick. And we arent getting back a highly touted star in Seguin, we are getting back the 5th pick, with the hopes that that pick may reach the ceiling of a Seguin.

I hardly see how my proposal was is a massive underpayment.

[$ven27]

Eriksson may be having a down year, but he was a core piece for Dallas no doubt.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And finally Kane +... Kane is a consistent 30 goal scorer, power forward with blazing speed. And it would have to be Kane PLUS?

Consistent?

He has done it once.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by moon

Consistent?

He has done it once.

Sometimes the perception of Evander Kane is far greater than Evander Kane the player. Lots of time to grow though, just hasn't done anything special yet.

[d_phaneuf]

the Islanders aren't going to take a bunch of quantity pieces

sure they will take the hit on potential but not 2nd line forward plus 4th d man type moves

those are things that you can get in free agency every July

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

Lets see. Seguin (2nd overall) + Peverley + Ryan Button (3rd round) for Eriksson (non core piece) + Fraser (FA) + J. Morrow (late first) + Smith (3rd round).

So Hudler and Eriksson are at least comparable, probably both were/are non-core pieces but talented wingers who have proven they can score.

Hudler career : 0.56ppg
Eriksson career: 0.70ppg

Dallas also added some prospects: former late 1st rounder, 3rd rounder. But they also got a former 3rd rounder back as well as Peverley.

I hardly see how my proposal was is a massive underpayment.

Eriksson was a core piece for Dallas.

I don't think him and Hudler are all that comparable unless I have misconceptions about Eriksson

I also think Wideman is not a Dman you would build a core around and sacrifice a 5th overall for. Hudler is alright, but once again I don't think he is a player you sacrifice a high pick.

Also, Seguin was apparently not fitting in with the Bruins and was on his way out. Bruins thought Eriksson would be part of the core. Doubt NYI would see that with either Hudler or Wideman (who was pretty bad after his hot start).

All I am saying, remember how ####ty the Phaneuf trade felt, you are basically proposing that to the Islanders.

I sure as hell wouldn't trade a 5th overall for Hudler and Wideman.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by moon

Consistent?

He has done it once.

In the last 3 seasons he has played 185 games. 30 goal pace would be 68 goals. He has 66. Sorry for being misleading.

[driveway]

There's some pretty interesting valuations of what a 5th overall is worth. I went and looked at who's gone 5th for the last 20 years and three names jumped out: Kessel(06), Price(05), and Vanek(03). Other than that there's a whole lot of Schenn, Torres, Connolly, Niederreiter, Brewer et. al.

It looks like, most often, a 5th overall pick ends up being a 2nd/3rd line forward or 3rd/4th defenseman.

Given who is available this year, Dal Colle/Ritchie, I'd be willing to do Stajan+Glencross+Colorado's 2nd.

Stajan provides NYI with a capable center who can move from 3rd line to 1st line as needed and is signed. Glencross is a 20 goal scorer with grit who is widely seen as the kind of player you want on your team. Also, as a pending UFA he provides NY with options come the deadline.

The tank would be on in full force here in Calgary with that deal, keep whichever center we get and dal colle in juniors for a year, then get a high pick next year.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by driveway

It looks like, most often, a 5th overall pick ends up being a 2nd/3rd line forward or 3rd/4th defenseman.

Given who is available this year, Dal Colle/Ritchie, I'd be willing to do Stajan+Glencross+Colorado's 2nd.

Neither of those players will push a team over the top. I just think a strong incentive needs to exist for a team to deal a 5th overall.

I would rather gamble on getting Vanek, Kessel, or Price over getting Glencross and Stajan. Chance at an impact player is better than accepting serviceable players.

Would you trade the 4th for a similar package?

[driveway]

No, but we're in a very different position than New York. We are at the beginning of a rebuild an they are supposed to be at or near the end of it.

The pressure to make the playoffs next year must be pretty intense in that town. I think that with Stajan and Glencross on that team, they could be where Columbus is right now.

The reason I would offer Glencross and Stajan, is because I think New York would have to think pretty hard about it.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

So you would be wiling to move the Flames #4 pick for the equivalent of Backlund + a guy any team could have picked up before last season for free?

Why does it matter that Hudler was a UFA "before last season"? He isn't a UFA now and he would be classified as immediate help for the Islanders. Can't/don't want to speak to that specific or any other proposal but it doesn't matter if Hudler used to be a UFA before, he isn't now.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by driveway

No, but we're in a very different position than New York. We are at the beginning of a rebuild an they are supposed to be at or near the end of it.

The pressure to make the playoffs next year must be pretty intense in that town. I think that with Stajan and Glencross on that team, they could be where Columbus is right now.

The reason I would offer Glencross and Stajan, is because I think New York would have to think pretty hard about it.

I don't think Glencross or Stajan are guys that would push any team into the playoffs.

Isles would be better off packaging that pick with one of their prospects for a younger impact player.

I don't think their is pressure to move the pick unless a clear and immediate upgrade is being made, they need defense and a goalie.

[browna]

I would certainly see this as a direct request of the Oilers by the Isles.

"Give us one of your young impact guys that you'd like to trade to make a 'Bold Move'. A young player that you have no takers for, as the quality of player you want returning needs to waive a NTC, and won't/ hasn't".

Have the Isles pack up a third round pick or throw a green prospect..and get a guy like RNH.

Don't know if that's the return the Oilers would give up, but these are the types of moves McT is pretty much limited to, and if he's looking to do the annual shuffling of the chairs on the Titanic, this would qualify.

Impact UFA's have no desire to be part of the circus that Lowe has created over the past half decade/decade. In the same vein, NMC's from impact players won't be waived to go there. He has to hope that one of the top 5 18-20 year olds (it's 4 so far, more if you count Gagner) comes in and hits a home run.