Chris Butler Discussion: Sign, or Walk?

[calgarywinning]

Butler's play was noticeably improved. He stepped up. That being said, if we can do better in the marketplace, draft, or who we have coming up from the AHL we should look to that. I also think we should draft balanced. Time to look at the d-men.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Gio Brodie
Smid Wotherspoon
Russel Wideman

There is no room on the bottom pairing for Butler.

If you are playing Smid and Wotherspoon above Russel and Wideman, we can expect another top 5 pick next year.

[Wolfman]

A good point was brought up on the radio this morning about Butler and his blocked shots. He blocks lots of shots because he can't get the puck out of his own end, and spend more time in the offensive zone. To me the plus minus stat is more important than the blocked shots stat without question. I know this will make a few CPers upset but it's true!

[Poe969]

His transitional game is horri-aweful. He's improved his game to an average 5-6 NHL defenseman and would easily be replaced. I think we have better options than him in our system already.

If we somehow manage to draft Ekblad, I see him making the team over butler.

[Shawnski]

So let's compare a couple players here, one a god, one a dog.

Monahan, 75 GP, 15:58 AVG TOI, -20
Butler, 82 GP, 20:15 AVG TOI, -23

Had Monahan played the additional 7 games, he would have been on pace for an additional -2, so -22 on the year.

Had Monahan played 4:17 more per game, that would put him on pace then for another approx. -6, totalling -28.

One is a god, one is a dog.

The vitriol shown to Butler is beyond contempt.

[Poe969]

lol Monahan is younger and it was his first year. He carried his line mates at time and made things happen on the ice. Butler did the opposite. Hec, if you want to make up situations I'll say that if Butler had a better transitional game then he could have not only improved his own stats but everyone else's stats.

Bottom line is that Butler is an average defenseman and if we can improve in that position we should.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Just for fun.

MacDonald: GP: 82 G: 4 A: 24 P: 28 ESP: 16 +/-: -22 TOI/G: 24:37 PP: 2:52 SH: 2:22 Bks: 242 Hits: 69 Gva: 64

Butler: GP:82 G: 2 A: 14 P: 16 ESP: 15 +/-: -23 TOI/G: 20:15 PP: 0:20 SH: 2:41 Bks:211 Hits: 68 GVA: 69

Then the advanced stats:

MacDonald: Corsi: -13.26 Corsi Rel: -19.5 Off Zone Start: 48.8% Off Zone Finish: 49%

Butler: Corsi: -13.61 Corsi Rel: -8.9 Off Zone Start: 41.3% Off Zone Finish: 46.1

So MacDonald puts up worse numbers than Butler, but has much more favourable Offensive zone starts (48.8% vs 41.3%). This is like giving Butler a 6 year, $30 million dollar contract and then sheltering his defensive zone time.

Posted this in the other thread but it fits here too. A player that is virtually identical to Butler in all aspects of the game (both regular and advanced stats) just got a $5 million contract.

I highly doubt we see Butler back here next season if he can leverage this signing as a UFA.

Said player also returned a 2nd and a 3rd round pick back at the trade deadline.

[Poe969]

double post

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Posted this in the other thread but it fits here too. A player that is virtually identical to Butler in all aspects of the game (both regular and advanced stats) just got a $5 million contract.

I highly doubt we see Butler back here next season if he can leverage this signing as a UFA.

Said player also returned a 2nd and a 3rd round pick back at the trade deadline.

Because a bad GM gave out a horrible contract, doesn't mean we should do the same. Why don't we compare people to Adam Pardy and give contracts out to everyone. That MacDonald contract is just bad.

That being said, Butler isn't a bad player but we shouldn't keep him just because he's already here; if we can improve in that position we should, if we can't then we should try to sign him. Unless you want this team to be a perennial bottom 3 team like the oilers, changes need to be made.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Because a bad GM gave out a horrible contract, doesn't mean we should do the same. Why don't we compare people to Adam Pardy and give contracts out to everyone. That MacDonald contract is just bad.

That being said, Butler isn't a bad player but we shouldn't keep him just because he's already here; if we can improve in that position we should, if we can't then we should try to sign him. Unless you want this team to be a perennial bottom 3 team like the oilers, changes need to be made.

I was using that as a reason why Butler probably won't be back next season, not as a reason to give him a terrible overpayment.

[Poe969]

Good point. I hope some other GM wants to over pay for him, we don't need to over pay for an average guy like him. That being said, if he's the best option then I hope he comes at a decent price. BUT if he makes it to free agency and a team wants to give him a lot of money then I hope we can find a "diamond in the ruff" like Russell again.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Because a bad GM gave out a horrible contract, doesn't mean we should do the same. Why don't we compare people to Adam Pardy and give contracts out to everyone. That MacDonald contract is just bad.

That being said, Butler isn't a bad player but we shouldn't keep him just because he's already here; if we can improve in that position we should, if we can't then we should try to sign him. Unless you want this team to be a perennial bottom 3 team like the oilers, changes need to be made.

I thought Pardy was playing pretty well for the Jets towards the end of the season.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Posted this in the other thread but it fits here too. A player that is virtually identical to Butler in all aspects of the game (both regular and advanced stats) just got a $5 million contract.

I highly doubt we see Butler back here next season if he can leverage this signing as a UFA.

Said player also returned a 2nd and a 3rd round pick back at the trade deadline.

That contract is beyond awful but it may move Butler to an asking price where it may not be prudent to keep him. I don't mind the team keeping him for a few years but not at an inflated salary.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

So let's compare a couple players here, one a god, one a dog.

Monahan, 75 GP, 15:58 AVG TOI, -20, Team GF 52, Team GA 58.
Butler, 82 GP, 20:15 AVG TOI, -23, Team GF 42, Team GA 86.

Had Monahan played the additional 7 games, he would have been on pace for an additional -2, so -22 on the year.

Had Monahan played 4:17 more per game, that would put him on pace then for another approx. -6, totalling -28.

One is a god, one is a dog.

The vitriol shown to Butler is beyond contempt.

Yes but +/- doesn't tell the entire story, and yes Monaha has more than enough to learn on the defensive side of the game. When you simply look at the team GF/GA ratio it gives quite a different story. Now you just need to decide how much of an importance goals on special teams play.

[Red Ice Player]

Its ok to want Butler gone but some posters are getting really personal with their name calling and attacks on the guy. Its extremely tasteless and says more about the delto bravoness of those posters than anything else. Its a good way to figure out who to put on ignore.

[theoforever]

We suffered through Butler's mistakes for years and just when he looks like he has turned the corner we are going to let him go?

I find it interesting that everyone under Bob is having a good year, while under Sutter everyone sucked. God that guy was a crappy coach.

[Ring of Fire]

I think Butler will be looking for a 3-4 year contract at $2.5 to $3 million a year at minimum. I'd be willing to take Butler back on the low end of that price scale for a 1 or 2 year deal but I think he'll try to cash in if he can.

[dying4acup]

Butler is replaceable. Even if he's not, I'd rather give his spot to a prospect, than bring him back.

The reason Macdonald got a huge contract is that there are very few available quality UFA defense on the market. Butler, business-wise would be smart to go UFA. Career-wise, I would take Burke's best offer, because the flames have an abundance of puckmovers to make him look good. Butler can play defense, but he can't handle the puck.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

So let's compare a couple players here, one a god, one a dog.

Monahan, 75 GP, 15:58 AVG TOI, -20
Butler, 82 GP, 20:15 AVG TOI, -23

Had Monahan played the additional 7 games, he would have been on pace for an additional -2, so -22 on the year.

Had Monahan played 4:17 more per game, that would put him on pace then for another approx. -6, totalling -28.

One is a god, one is a dog.

The vitriol shown to Butler is beyond contempt.

This is the most LOLtastic post I have read in a while.

[chanimal40]

He is the worst minus player on the team let him walk.