ECQF: Boston Bruins [ATL2] vs Toronto Maple Leafs [ATL3] - Series tied 3-3

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

Good.

Oh I agree, but there is talk here that he can just trade Marner in the summer.

It's not that simple and not even his decision.

[savemedrzaius]

0/5 on the PP is shameful. Leafs PP is always garbage in the playoffs.

Hopefully Nylander is back for Game 4. I'd give him Marner's spot in the 2nd line and move Marner to the third. He had one nice pass but he turned the puck over dozens of times. He's been the worst player on the ice for them. I'm not sure Keefe has the cajones to do it though.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

0/5 on the PP is shameful. Leafs PP is always garbage in the playoffs.

Hopefully Nylander is back for Game 4. I'd give him Marner's spot in the 2nd line and move Marner to the third. He had one nice pass but he turned the puck over dozens of times. He's been the worst player on the ice for them. I'm not sure Keefe has the cajones to do it though.

Truth is you live and die with those players. If Marner isn’t playing well you can’t play him less. He’s just gotta come of age and man up. Both are too good to play third line minutes.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by This post is terrible

Treliving also needs to make his trademark mega trade, I’m assuming one revolving around Marner

What team out there has an overrated defenseman on the decline like Hamonic on their roster that he can move out Marner for?

[Ped]

So far the Leafs haven't really been able to adapt to the playoffs. Is it the core 4, or Keefe, or just the fact they don't have the depth, or a combination?

[cam_calderon]

It's all of the above. The stars aren't good enough, there's no depth and the coach, who's probably somewhere in the middle of the 32, can't outcoach those devestating flaws.

[dustygoon]

Leafs blueline top to bottom might be one of the worst in the league. Treliving knew it needed to be upgraded and tried (Zadorov and Tanev, etc) but didn't want to pay up.

I really liked BT in his time here as a person, leader, etc but he seemed to have a habit of picking the wrong times to be cheap and then to pay up in trade or FA. No need to go through them all.

But I'm betting he wishes he parted with his 1st rounder.

[Erick Estrada]

Series is only 2-1 so not over yet. I think the problem Treliving faced is that they didn't need just a Tanev or Zadorov. They needed a Tanev and Zadorov just to make their blueline at least good enough to win a few rounds and that still wouldn't address their goaltending situation. They have some nice pieces at forward but the rest of the roster is below average and that's not going to get the job done in the playoffs.

[activeStick]

Growing sentiment among Leaf fans to break up the core 4. Might be a couple years late though.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1783474180496789810

[heep223]

Kind of ironic how the Flames had multiple pieces for sale, that Tre would have been very familiar with and brought to Calgary in the first place, that would have helped the Leafs finally get over their playoff demons.

He bought none of them.

I think he’s a good GM but he suffers from trying to be too cute/the smartest guy in the room and it’s ultimately his short coming.

[SuperMatt18]

Marner has a full NMC - would he even agree to be traded?

And if he does he's going to want to pick his spot.

[activeStick]

Yeah, with all of the various clauses on their big money players, Treliving will be working at a disadvantage if he actually tries to break the core up and will have few options. Feels like Leaf nation is done with the group though, especially Marner.

[SuperMatt18]

Just looked and it's not just Marner... all of Rielly, Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Marner all have full no movement clauses.

So of their "Core" they are going to have a hard time getting full value or shaking that up IMO.

Personally I still wouldn't move Marner if I were them. I still think trying to move forward with Nylander, Matthews, and Marner is probably the correct move.

They need to upgrade on Reilly who is not a great #1 dman, and they need to clear the cap space from Tavares contract. Then with a rising cap you should be able to build around those three.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Growing sentiment among Leaf fans to break up the core 4. Might be a couple years late though.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1783474180496789810

Pretty funny that someone think BT knows how to get out of the first round.

[blankall]

People were saying from the beginning that signing Tavares was likely a bad idea. Too much cap tied up in centres. It's pretty clear that Toronto's defence just isn't very good. Rielly and a bunch of older guys, that are all injured right now. If they could spread the Tavares money around and instead of paying multiple older player 5ish million a year, get an upgrade to an actual good d-man for $8+ million, that would go a long way.

If possible, you keep Marner, Nylander, and Matthews. The rest of a contender can be acquired/built. The GM has to do their job though.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Just looked and it's not just Marner... all of Rielly, Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Marner all have full no movement clauses.

So of their "Core" they are going to have a hard time getting full value or shaking that up IMO.

Personally I still wouldn't move Marner if I were them. I still think trying to move forward with Nylander, Matthews, and Marner is probably the correct move.

They need to upgrade on Reilly who is not a great #1 dman, and they need to clear the cap space from Tavares contract. Then with a rising cap you should be able to build around those three.

I largely agreed with you on what was written above, but nowadays you can’t keep rolling this back in a salary cap world. Whether they are forced to do it is another question but it seems like they have to look at other options. Tavares contract comes up after next season and they’ll save a lot of money when he takes a discount to stay after. Truth be told he’s earned his stay in the playoffs. He’s everywhere. Reilly is off the year. Normally he plays hard but he’s borderline number 1 on most teams. He’s not the problem though. Marner is not showing up and it’s happened year after year. I think he accepts a trade if the gun is put to him by management but he can be pissy and I could see him making it difficult. But they’ve been given enough chances. It’s clear they don’t have the proper mix at the top. Matthews does not take the body if in a position to do so. He has to mix it up a bit when he’s making that much money. Nylander will but he’s injured. Marner to me is the odd man out here. You need to trade him for either a defenceman or a power forward who can score. Tough place to be.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I largely agreed with you on what was written above, but nowadays you can’t keep rolling this back in a salary cap world. Whether they are forced to do it is another question but it seems like they have to look at other options. Tavares contract comes up after next season and they’ll save a lot of money when he takes a discount to stay after. Truth be told he’s earned his stay in the playoffs. He’s everywhere. Reilly is off the year. Normally he plays hard but he’s borderline number 1 on most teams. He’s not the problem though. Marner is not showing up and it’s happened year after year. I think he accepts a trade if the gun is put to him by management but he can be pissy and I could see him making it difficult. But they’ve been given enough chances. It’s clear they don’t have the proper mix at the top. Matthews does not take the body if in a position to do so. He has to mix it up a bit when he’s making that much money. Nylander will but he’s injured. Marner to me is the odd man out here. You need to trade him for either a defenceman or a power forward who can score. Tough place to be.

He's having a rough playoff this season - but I think he's been scapegoated in prior years.

Overall over the last three playoffs he has a 64.3% GF% at 5V5 (18 GF / 10 GA), is at 57.2% xGF and has 23 points in 21 games (which is the same as Matthews).

Honestly think that the issue lies a lot more with their lack of impact depth beyond those 5 players, and not just specifically those 5 players.

No real impact defenders (Rielly is overrated IMO) and no goaltending doesnt' help either.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

He's having a rough playoff this season - but I think he's been scapegoated in prior years.

Overall over the last three playoffs he has a 64.3% GF% at 5V5 (18 GF / 10 GA), is at 57.2% xGF and has 23 points in 21 games (which is the same as Matthews).

Honestly think that the issue lies a lot more with their lack of impact depth beyond those 5 players, and not just specifically those 5 players.

No real impact defenders (Rielly is overrated IMO) and no goaltending doesnt' help either.

There’s statistics and there’s statistics. I personally don’t see Marner out there much. Regular season he’s all over the place making plays and just creating havoc. He’s not been around much these three games. Matthews has been good but can be better if more physical rather than waiting for the team to pass to him. Reilly I don’t think has been bad. Just quiet. So could be injured but he hasn’t been visible since the Ottawa suspension.

[Wastedyouth]

The Leafs players honestly look like they are playing at 78% effort. Like they know they are going to lose, so don't get hurt.

They have no urgency to their game at all.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

The Leafs players honestly look like they are playing at 78% effort. Like they know they are going to lose, so don't get hurt.

They have no urgency to their game at all.

I partially agree. Where I disagree is attributing that to the whole team. These games have been close. It’s just not a full team approach. Certain big stars refuse to move outside their comfort zone physically. They have as good of a forward group as any to some degree. But the mix of that top end talent is such that they don’t get gritty at all. They know they’re finesse players and they will not do any physical plug work even if it’s the playoffs. Marchand and Pasternak will grind it out against the boards. As your top players you need guys to do that in the playoffs. Marner avoids it, Matthews prefers just using his stick and playing keepaway but won’t come in barrelling, and Nylander is out (and he does do that when needed). So nobody on the elite side is filling that role when you need all to do it. Tavares has been good in that regard as well as Knies. Their defence truly hasn’t let them down. It’s just their elite guys sticking to their comfort zone which to me is the problem.