Tracking the anti-LBGTQ+ movement

[Fuzz]

Skippy shares the same views as those that led to this death. Un-electable.

Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre stepped into the debate over trans rights on Wednesday, saying "biological males" should be banned from women's sports, change rooms and bathrooms.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/poi...ooms-1.7120972


Danielle Smith and other Conservative premiers forcing their bigoted restrictions on freedoms and foisting ignorance upon children will lead to many more.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Skippy shares the same views as those that led to this death. Un-electable.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/poi...ooms-1.7120972


Danielle Smith and other Conservative premiers forcing their bigoted restrictions on freedoms and foisting ignorance upon children will lead to many more.

Once again,

These kinds of laws hurt EVERYONE, not just the "evil transgenders".

[Barnet Flame]

That was a heartbreaking read.

[Galakanokis]

I believe a teacher that tried to help Nex was also fired for grooming. The whole thing is absolutely ####ed up. Alabama is following suite with their attack on IVF and trying to pass a law that a man and woman will be based on sperm and ova.

Canada is not trailing too far behind with Poilievre falling right in line. Zero respect for anyone support that ####.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Skippy shares the same views as those that led to this death. Un-electable.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/poi...ooms-1.7120972

Danielle Smith and other Conservative premiers forcing their bigoted restrictions on freedoms and foisting ignorance upon children will lead to many more.

From the article, Smith is quoted as saying this:

Those changes include a pledge to forbid transgender women in Alberta from competing in women's sports leagues. Smith did say, however, that her government will work with sports leagues in the province to set up co-ed or gender-neutral divisions for sports.

I honestly think that's reasonable. I don't get why liberal-minded people don't just say, 'yep, we agree with you on that one.' It seems perfectly rational to me.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Sliver

From the article, Smith is quoted as saying this:


I honestly think that's reasonable. I don't get why liberal-minded people don't just say, 'yep, we agree with you on that one.' It seems perfectly rational to me.

I’m torn on the issue. Lots of athletes have genetic advantages and trans women are on hormones that, as far as I know, decrease their muscle mass.

And I don’t know of any trans athletes dominating their sport, and there’s no evidence of someone transitioning to be able to compete with women.

I do hate that bigots use this issue as another way to hate, even if it’s not really an issue.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I honestly think that's reasonable. I don't get why liberal-minded people don't just say, 'yep, we agree with you on that one.' It seems perfectly rational to me.

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

I’m torn on the issue. Lots of athletes have genetic advantages and trans women are on hormones that, as far as I know, decrease their muscle mass.

And I don’t know of any trans athletes dominating their sport, and there’s no evidence of someone transitioning to be able to compete with women.

I do hate that bigots use this issue as another way to hate, even if it’s not really an issue.

It only really an issue at all at the very high end of competitive sports.

It affects very few people.

And the sports governing bodies are already taking care of the issues specific to their sport.

This just isn't something that the government needs to step into. The people crying out have made this into a much bigger thing than it actually is.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

I’m torn on the issue. Lots of athletes have genetic advantages and trans women are on hormones that, as far as I know, decrease their muscle mass.

And I don’t know of any trans athletes dominating their sport, and there’s no evidence of someone transitioning to be able to compete with women.

I do hate that bigots use this issue as another way to hate, even if it’s not really an issue.

I think it's a super small issue, but it keeps getting brought up by bigots/conservatives because liberals argue against it. I think it disarms the argument by acknowledging they're correct on the sports thing.

There are examples of trans women excelling in their sports.

Lia Thomas, a trans woman has destroyed records.

Few people paid attention when, in a meet against Princeton and Cornell, in November, she put up the season’s best times in the two-hundred-yard and five-hundred-yard freestyle races, and set Penn records. But, in early December, at the Zippy Invitational, in Akron, Ohio, Thomas dropped another second off her time in the five-hundred-yard freestyle, and nearly a second and a half off her time in the two-hundred-yard race. She won the sixteen-hundred-and-fifty-yard freestyle by thirty-eight seconds.

Trans woman's inclusion in female category of powerlifting championship in BC questioned by protesters. Canadian Powerlifting Union policy says athletes can self-identify into the category of their choosing.

Anne Andres, the transgender powerlifter who won the bronze medal during the event...Andres says she is aware that transgender women probably have an advantage over athletes assigned female at birth.

That's about all the googling I feel like doing on that, but my point is it's not transphobic (IMO, I'm learning and listening like most other people) to acknowledge physiological differences in CIS vs transgender female athletes.

I also think this is such a small and relatively insignificant part of trans rights and acceptance, but for liberals to pretend it isn't a fair criticism only serves to bolster the views of bigots.

I'm 100% supportive of trans rights and I think you can be supportive while also acknowledging trans women have an unfair advantage in sports when competing against CIS women.

I find when I'm talking about these issues IRL the sports thing always comes up from right-leaning people. I agree with them instantly and it totally throws them for a loop because outside of that, they honestly have ZERO arguments against trans people that can be backed up by reason, logic, or compassion.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

I’m torn on the issue. Lots of athletes have genetic advantages and trans women are on hormones that, as far as I know, decrease their muscle mass.

And I don’t know of any trans athletes dominating their sport, and there’s no evidence of someone transitioning to be able to compete with women.

I do hate that bigots use this issue as another way to hate, even if it’s not really an issue.

While hormones might even things out the question would be how long is an acceptable wait period before the transition is far enough along. The advantage doesn't go away overnight after a first dose and it probably doesn't go away in a significant amount over the course of a month and maybe not even over a year.

[cheevers]

The thing with transgender women in sport is that there may be an argument for or against competing against biological woman in high level sport. But there is no point in having the conversation with people do not care about women's sports, do not support women's sports, and are against women in general. For most it is just a chance to be a bigot, and hate against transgender people in an open, socially acceptable way.

By all means have a conversation about transgender women in sport, but it is one that should take place with the high level athletes who it actually effects.

[MRCboicgy]

At the lower levels, it shouldn't matter, it should be about fun, making friends, and yeah winning is nice. When the government gets involved, all of that for youth sports goes out the door.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by cheevers

The thing with transgender women in sport is that there may be an argument for or against competing against biological woman in high level sport. But there is no point in having the conversation with people do not care about women's sports, do not support women's sports, and are against women in general. For most it is just a chance to be a bigot, and hate against transgender people in an open, socially acceptable way.

By all means have a conversation about transgender women in sport, but it is one that should take place with the high level athletes who it actually effects.

You're right, I don't think that people care that much about women's sports, but girls sports is a different thing. Many folks have daughters playing middle school and high school sports.

One absolute about children's sports is that parents are absolutely crazy people who have no self awareness. I have seen the grown adults threaten to beat up 12 year old reffs in u8 hockey. The trouble isn't hypocrisy, the trouble is that parents are stupid about sports.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

Not much makes my heart sink these days, but damn. No kid deserves that fate. Period. Even less so for having it happen because of simply trying to live their life.

Oklahoma's Superintendent of education is a real piece of work, check out his tweety:
https://twitter.com/ryanwalterssupt?lang=en

Things are pretty bad down here. Walters is trying hard to be the furthest right of anyone. Lots of Oklahoma tax dollars are being spent on him travelling around doing speaking gigs and interviews. He actually appointed the lady that runs the libsoftiktok lady to our state library board. She isn't even from here, but his virtue signaling knows no bounds.

Somehow the dude won state teacher of the year before getting into politics. Now pretty much every educator in the state hates him. WOuldn't surprise me if he is our next governor as our current one terms out in 2 years.

The tragedy with Nex is unfortunate. Owasso is a super white super conservative suburb of Tulsa. Not surprising that things like that have happened. The latest word from news here is that the cause of death might not have been the physical altercation. Certainly a lot to unpack with the story though.

Edit: might as well give a source - https://www.newson6.com/story/65d667...ght-police-say

Owasso Police say their investigation revealed the death of 16-year-old Nex Benedict was not related to their injuries after the physical altercation at the school.

[Locke]

You just wait until Men start dominating Bake Offs! Then we'll see the real outrage!

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I don't really see any circumstances where the death was "not related" to the physical altercation, honestly. That'd be too much of a coincidence. If the suggestion is that it was a suicide the next day, that's not actually any less horrific.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I don't really see any circumstances where the death was "not related" to the physical altercation, honestly. That'd be too much of a coincidence. If the suggestion is that it was a suicide the next day, that's not actually any less horrific.

....and definitely a contributing reason. That police tone sure made it sound like Suicide. It would be gross if they put out a not related press release if it was suicide.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by cheevers

The thing with transgender women in sport is that there may be an argument for or against competing against biological woman in high level sport. But there is no point in having the conversation with people do not care about women's sports, do not support women's sports, and are against women in general. For most it is just a chance to be a bigot, and hate against transgender people in an open, socially acceptable way.

By all means have a conversation about transgender women in sport, but it is one that should take place with the high level athletes who it actually effects.

At the lowest level of sport, things are already co-ed. My son at 16 just took an introduction to rugby course. It was two dudes and three girls all about the same age.

When my kids were in Timbits soccer it was co-ed.

There isn't an issue in low level sports.

It doesn't take long for sports to become highly competitive, though. I have a couple of friends who basically devote their lives to accommodating their kids' sports. I think when you're putting that much time, effort and money into an activity things certainly need to be fair.

I'm not opposed to the government assisting on this. People are very concerned about appearing to be anti-trans or questioning whether or not we can put any restrictions on trans athletes. I understand. The government could take the heat on this and I'm fine with removing community volunteers and such who are trying to navigate this stuff from being caught in the middle of bigots and wokers.

I think if we take a step back from trans issues as they relate to sports, though, we are greater allies to the trans community by giving in on the sports thing and disallowing trans women from competing with CIS women. I truly believe it does disarm what - for conservatives/bigots - is a mountain they have made out of a molehill. Take that talking point away from them and they really don't have a lot left to say that isn't blatantly ridiculous. We can always circle back to it, but let's focus on every single other issue as they relate to trans rights and concede this one itsy bitsy thing to give them a victory and let them know that we are looking at things rationally.

For the record I don't care about women's sports and I don't care about men's sports either. I do care about LGBTQ+ rights and equality, and I think acknowledging trans women competing with CIS females is problematic works toward helping the community short and medium term.

[fotze2]

Ya, I saw a female hockey player on Lethbridge in Bantam AAA a few years absolutely get rocked (by a boy), blood on the ice, laying there, arena silent and she will probably play for Team Canada, she is awesome, but would be ideal to avoid that type of situation.

[puckedoff]

If she never played co-ed would she have developed enough skill to make Team Canada?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Sliver

At the lowest level of sport, things are already co-ed. My son at 16 just took an introduction to rugby course. It was two dudes and three girls all about the same age.

When my kids were in Timbits soccer it was co-ed.

There isn't an issue in low level sports.

It doesn't take long for sports to become highly competitive, though. I have a couple of friends who basically devote their lives to accommodating their kids' sports. I think when you're putting that much time, effort and money into an activity things certainly need to be fair.

I'm not opposed to the government assisting on this. People are very concerned about appearing to be anti-trans or questioning whether or not we can put any restrictions on trans athletes. I understand. The government could take the heat on this and I'm fine with removing community volunteers and such who are trying to navigate this stuff from being caught in the middle of bigots and wokers.

I think if we take a step back from trans issues as they relate to sports, though, we are greater allies to the trans community by giving in on the sports thing and disallowing trans women from competing with CIS women. I truly believe it does disarm what - for conservatives/bigots - is a mountain they have made out of a molehill. Take that talking point away from them and they really don't have a lot left to say that isn't blatantly ridiculous. We can always circle back to it, but let's focus on every single other issue as they relate to trans rights and concede this one itsy bitsy thing to give them a victory and let them know that we are looking at things rationally.

For the record I don't care about women's sports and I don't care about men's sports either. I do care about LGBTQ+ rights and equality, and I think acknowledging trans women competing with CIS females is problematic works toward helping the community short and medium term.

I totally get what you are saying, and on the one hand the issue is actually more that kids are competing in hyper-competitive sports for no good healthy reason. Maybe backing off on that and just having fun sports leagues would go a lot further. But that's kinda tangential.

I think the resistance to "giving in" on this is that's exactly what they are looking for. Slowly whittle away at it until you can make the big moves, like they did with Roe v Wade. That wasn't overturned in a day, it took decades of work. So while you can reasonably argue some points, the big picture makes it a lot harder to say "let them have a small win." And you know damn well if the situation is reversed, their is not an inch being given, ever. They are bullies, and just like giving the bully your candy bar one time when they threatens you, it sure isn't going to stop at that.