Westworld: New original HBO series

[zamler]

I still have not decided if I like this show or not. I do enjoy watching but there is something missing can't put my finger on it.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Given the website, I have no doubt they have a lot more layers here than is visible just by watching the show for the character story. There is a lot more here, and there is meant to be a lot more, than True Detective. I am a little worried about the prospect of another Lost. Hopefully they don't make it up as they go this time.

I'd be pretty shocked if the plan was to make it up as they go along. That's more a symptom of network television than cable tv.

I also wouldn't characterize speculation about the greater plot points as "wild conspiracy theories".

There's obviously something more going on here. The maze and the secret programming obviously show that Dr. Ford isn't disclosing the whole truth about the park. On the superficial level we have an amusement park. Beneath that we have some kind of experimentation into creating artificial life. The desire to create has obviously driven something darker. A main theme of the show is that the difference between artificial life and real life has been blurred, so we'll likely see more of that as the show progresses.

The audience is supposed to be guessing at what's going on here at this point. I'd say this show has a lot more in common with Mr. Robot, in that sense. I don't know why Lost or True Detective are being brought up at all.

[gottabekd]

I think one of the deeper motives/experiments that is beyond a theme park is about allowing the super rich to embed their consciousness into one of these androids, allowing them (and their loved ones) to essentially live forever.

This might be what Arnold did, and his consciousness is buried deep in Bernard (who is super obviously an android, right? Like so much so, I wonder if it is a red herring). Dr. Ford is the wildcard. We aren't sure how much he knows about the goings on or what his true motivations are. It would be a shame to cast Anthony Hopkins for a role that doesn't require just a little bit of menace...

<Wild Speculation> It would be cool if as the story unfolds, and as The Man in Black's motivations becomes clearer, we start to see him as the good guy. Maybe he is trying to unravel the mystery of the park to find out how to blame Dr. Ford for his father's (Arnold) death 30 years prior. This would also explain why The Man in Black has all sorts of freedom to do whatever in the park: because he's 'family'.</Wild Speculation>

[Locke]

Originally Posted by gottabekd

I think one of the deeper motives/experiments that is beyond a theme park is about allowing the super rich to embed their consciousness into one of these androids, allowing them (and their loved ones) to essentially live forever.

This might be what Arnold did, and his consciousness is buried deep in Bernard (who is super obviously an android, right? Like so much so, I wonder if it is a red herring). Dr. Ford is the wildcard. We aren't sure how much he knows about the goings on or what his true motivations are. It would be a shame to cast Anthony Hopkins for a role that doesn't require just a little bit of menace...

<Wild Speculation> It would be cool if as the story unfolds, and as The Man in Black's motivations becomes clearer, we start to see him as the good guy. Maybe he is trying to unravel the mystery of the park to find out how to blame Dr. Ford for his father's (Arnold) death 30 years prior. This would also explain why The Man in Black has all sorts of freedom to do whatever in the park: because he's 'family'.</Wild Speculation>

Maybe they're all robots! Robots making robots for other robots. The only human left after the Terminator Wars is Anthony Hopkins/John Connor.

This is getting pretty meta...how deep does this rabbit-hole go?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Locke

Maybe they're all robots! Robots making robots for other robots. The only human left after the Terminator Wars is Anthony Hopkins/John Connor.

This is getting pretty meta...how deep does this rabbit-hole go?

As silly as that sounds, there is something odd about the staff in general. It seems like they are all pretty detached people without any real interpersonal relationships or family. The scene between Theresa and the security guy was especially weird. Just a bunch of quips back and forth.

[gottabekd]

Originally Posted by blankall

As silly as that sounds, there is something odd about the staff in general. It seems like they are all pretty detached people without any real interpersonal relationships or family. The scene between Theresa and the security guy was especially weird. Just a bunch of quips back and forth.

I just think that was a poorly written/directed/acted scene (you mean between Theresa and the narrative guy?). I agree it would be pretty cheesy if we start discovering a new Cylon every week.

The only 'outside' character that has been directly hinted at being an Android is Bernard.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by blankall

As silly as that sounds, there is something odd about the staff in general. It seems like they are all pretty detached people without any real interpersonal relationships or family. The scene between Theresa and the security guy was especially weird. Just a bunch of quips back and forth.

True, and the robot in the hole attacked the security guy which, according to the rules that we know, isnt supposed to be possible, robots can only attack other robots.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by blankall

I'd be pretty shocked if the plan was to make it up as they go along. That's more a symptom of network television than cable tv.

I also wouldn't characterize speculation about the greater plot points as "wild conspiracy theories".

There's obviously something more going on here. The maze and the secret programming obviously show that Dr. Ford isn't disclosing the whole truth about the park. On the superficial level we have an amusement park. Beneath that we have some kind of experimentation into creating artificial life. The desire to create has obviously driven something darker. A main theme of the show is that the difference between artificial life and real life has been blurred, so we'll likely see more of that as the show progresses.

The audience is supposed to be guessing at what's going on here at this point. I'd say this show has a lot more in common with Mr. Robot, in that sense. I don't know why Lost or True Detective are being brought up at all.

Well of course not, why would you?

I only characterized the wild conspiracy theories as wild conspiracy theories.

[GGG]

I have to rewatch the shows a bit but I'm not sure if the timelines all coincide. The narratives clearly have some on daily loops and some on longer loops but then things like the Delores interviews and the Ford interactions aren't necessarily linear in time.

Mainly Bernard's interactions with Delores don't seem to fit with the rest of the shows timeline

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I'm definitely trying to tone down the wild conspiracy theories.

I'm happy just watching the show to enjoy the story and to enjoy the themes of what it means to be human, right and wrong, entertainment/violence etc.

That's not to say I'm not interested in the maze or Delores overwriting her programming etc. but I really felt like True Detective, a character driven story, got insanely overhyped with the yellow king theories and had people disappointed with the finale simply because it didn't solve some grand conspiracy and have a wild, shocking reveal. When I watch it now, which I did not too long ago, it is funny to think how obsessed the internet was with coming up with insane theories of who the killer was and that the cult were basically like the Illuminati or something.

I'm not saying I don't enjoy a lot of the talk in this thread. I just think there's a limit to the wildness of the conspiracy theories before you'll end up building it up way more in your head than the writers ever intended.

I highly doubt they are going to pull a lost and intentionally build up a bunch of hype and legit have no clue how to give any payoff.

HA, I was just going to comment that this thread is getting a little to much True Detective hype.

HBO does one thing well. It tells stories. I can't remember the last time an HBO shows has had to rely on big plot reveals or anything of the sort to attract viewership. HBO isn't NBC and Westworld isn't lost.

It's possible that Bernard is a robot, but I'm not ready to sell the farm on that assumption yet. Given last episode, his "grounding" could be his dead son, or he is really just a human and gives us the alternative motivation to Bernard. The quest for humans to create consciousness that Dr. Ford has warned about.

Also, the idea that the staff are robots looks more like a thematic position than actual future reveal. In a park of robots, the only true robots are the ones running the place.

[Iceman57]

After rewatching episodes 2 & 3 I'm starting to believe the theory that William and the Man in Black are the same person. It's showing us how William visiting the park for the first time 30 years earlier then where we see the Man in Black now. If true id be super excited to see how William/MiB go from choosing the white hat to wearing a black one.

[photon]

So you mean the stuff with the MiB is all from the future?

[Iceman57]

Originally Posted by photon

So you mean the stuff with the MiB is all from the future?

The way it's been stated and how I perceive it is that everything with the Man in Black is happening in the present time line while the introduction of William was in the past, happening about 30 years ago. It's been said that the shinny new train station where William catches the futuristic black & white subway train is where Anthony Hopkins character resides most of the time but with it now being destitute and no longer in use.

[Fuzz]

I'm not sure that makes sense...They showed that clip of the early park with the hosts moving all jerky and being primitive. So wouldn't the Westworld William was in be like that, if the MIB is in the present? There would obviously be some advancement in 30 years, so you would expect to see the differences.

[Kybosh]

I love thinking about the philosophical questions of "what is consciousness?" and "what makes a human, human?" so I'm having a great time with this show so far. I'm finding it significantly more intriguing than anything else right now.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Iceman57

After rewatching episodes 2 & 3 I'm starting to believe the theory that William and the Man in Black are the same person. It's showing us how William visiting the park for the first time 30 years earlier then where we see the Man in Black now. If true id be super excited to see how William/MiB go from choosing the white hat to wearing a black one.

I think that theory goes out the window when Dolores rides into McPoyle's camp.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by photon

So you mean the stuff with the MiB is all from the future?

The stuff with William is all in the past.

In that theory, the William storyline would be showing us what led up to the major malfunction that happened 30 years ago (as mentioned in the first episode). If you watch the William scenes, there do seem to be some differences within the park from the rest of the stuff we see.

• The Westworld logo on the wall when William arrives at the modern train station is different from the one that's seen everywhere else.
  
  
• When they get off the train in town, Teddy wasn't also a passenger (he is a passenger every other time we see the train arrive). In fact, we never see Teddy in any of the scenes with William.
  
  
• Instead of the Sheriff recruiting a posse to chase the outlaws, we see a soldier recruiting for the Union Army. We also don't see the old man with the treasure hunt in the scenes without William. This could indicate that storylines have changed over the years.
  
  
• The only "common" hosts that we see in the William scenes are Dolores and Clementine (the prostitute). We know that Dolores is the oldest host in the park, and there's a suggestion that Clementine is older too (when Maeve starts to malfunction and they reassign her role as the head of the brothel to Clementine, Stubbs says that she has done the role before).

Everything seemed to be playing into this theory right until the final scene of the last episode where Dolores runs into William's camp and collapses. If Dolores escaping the attack on the ranch is a sign of her slipping her programming in the "present", she couldn't run across William in the "past".



I actually wouldn't be surprised if we're seeing things happening within a few different time periods. If you look at previous shows from Abrams and Nolan (Alias, Lost, Fringe, Person of Interest), having storylines from different time frames/realities play out concurrently is something that's been pretty common in those shows.

The nature of Westworld (a park that's set in the past within a show set in the future) makes it difficult to pinpoint when things are actually happening. The fact that the storylines and events within the park play out in a limited number of ways and repeat themselves frequently also adds to the confusion.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

See, I assumed that the reason they changed the storyline from the posse going to look for the outlaws over to the union army thing was because the outlaws already came to town and Currie Graham shot their big bad leader in the neck.

[GGG]

We know in once sequence Delores flashes back to MIB attack --> escapes --> then meets them on the bounty hunt. I can't see how that sequence changes.

Because their are different durations in visits in the park it would make sense that not all nartitives can be at the same point when guests enter the park.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GGG

We know in once sequence Delores flashes back to MIB attack --> escapes --> then meets them on the bounty hunt. I can't see how that sequence changes.

Because their are different durations in visits in the park it would make sense that not all nartitives can be at the same point when guests enter the park.

Originally Posted by Cappy

I think that theory goes out the window when Dolores rides into McPoyle's camp.

We don't have a continuous shot. They could have easily edited the episode to have the flashback of the MIB followed by Dolores showing up in William's camp. The two scenes made sense to have happened in the same time period, but we don't actually know that they did.