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Old 12-02-2023, 04:47 PM   #1
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Default Tracking the anti-LBGTQ+ movement

This needs its own thread. These movements are popping up all over the world, including North America, and I think it's important to point it out and the harm it causes.

This is what's happening in Russia right now, and if you don't think this is the end goal of the movements in North America, I have a bridge to sell you.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1730733389303427358
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Old 12-02-2023, 04:57 PM   #2
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Thanks for starting this thread, been thinking we needed one for awhile. A lot of good progress is being undone.
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Old 12-02-2023, 08:57 PM   #3
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What's the genesis of this recent, fully-throated resistance to queerness? It really seemed like we were moving in the right direction until about 2014 or 2015. I don't recall Trump being outwardly against these rights, but it sure feels like it was co-opted into the culture wars after he came into the political sphere.
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Old 12-02-2023, 09:11 PM   #4
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I still have a hard time understanding why people give such a #### about other people's private lives and their orientations. It just screams insecurity. It's much easier (and fun) to live life being understanding, accepting and optimistic. The LGBTQIA2S+ community is full of awesome people.
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Old 12-02-2023, 09:32 PM   #5
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I still have a hard time understanding why people give such a #### about other people's private lives and their orientations. It just screams insecurity. It's much easier (and fun) to live life being understanding, accepting and optimistic. The LGBTQIA2S+ community is full of awesome people.
I agree and support this statement.

... and now to ask...

That said one of the issues is that these days people have to either be "for" or "against" anything, including this LGB... I think fundamentally that's a problem and causes much strife. What's wrong with simply living your life without having to be a champion of something?

Just because I'm hetero and don't embrace or participate in LBG... lifestyles/events certainly doesn't mean I'm against it - it's simply not my thing. No hate, no drama. But neither should I be vilified for *not* going to pro-LBG... events (marches etc...) or wearing pro-LGB... paraphernalia.

I recently started working with someone who I suspected of being "not-hetero". Later they freely/casually mentioned it (somehow it fit the context of the conversation), and conversation went on as normal. Anyways this person is frickin' awesome.... and it has nothing to do with their orientation. They're just top notch to deal with work-wise and a hoot to chat with. I'd definitely go for beers with them.
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Old 12-02-2023, 09:58 PM   #6
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^ how are you being vilified? One of the things I find odd is people saying that kind of thing, along with “I just don’t want it thrown in my face!” Ok…but people just living and doing their thing isn’t throwing it in your face or anything.
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Old 12-02-2023, 10:05 PM   #7
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LGB..
Um…
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Old 12-02-2023, 10:26 PM   #8
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Mind your own business, treat everyone as you'd like to be treated, and recognize not everyone in this world is the same as you or live the way you live and there's nothing you can do to change it.

If you're bothered by things like pronouns and sexual orientation, take a good long look in the mirror and ask yourself if it's worth your time and energy to start culture wars on other people for no good reason.
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Old 12-02-2023, 10:30 PM   #9
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The colossal amount of energy wasted in getting upset by gay and transgender people existing is mind-blowing.
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Old 12-02-2023, 11:33 PM   #10
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^ how are you being vilified? One of the things I find odd is people saying that kind of thing, along with “I just don’t want it thrown in my face!” Ok…but people just living and doing their thing isn’t throwing it in your face or anything.

two things you mentioned:
1. Vilified

2. ... thrown in face... people just living and doing their thing...


My point was there's a spectrum of support for LGB...*, and a similar spectrum against. My perception/observation is that if an outward expression of support isn't made (by some) then some others choose to take that as hate or anti. And that's not fair nor truthful for most. Everyone everywhere should be able to just live and do their thing and not be judged.
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Old 12-02-2023, 11:38 PM   #11
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Um…

Yeah I knew someone would tag onto that... and it's not intended to be antagonistic or pro-this or anti-that. Go back a few years and it started as LGB, then LGBQ, then etc etc. The reality is that for the purposes of this forum and conversation everyone knows what I mean. If you knew me personally you'd know very well it's not intended as hate or whatever. So don't make it into something it isn't. I simply didn't wish to type it all out repeatedly (call me lazy if you must) as I knew I'd typo it and then that would cause something that wasn't intended either. So my apologies... and as a followup do you want everyone here to type that all out each time or can we abbreviate for the sake having a conversation?
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Old 12-03-2023, 12:44 AM   #12
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Let's Go Brandon!
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Old 12-03-2023, 12:50 AM   #13
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Just the latest wedge issue...
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Old 12-03-2023, 12:54 AM   #14
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Not sure what's happening in the world, the gay community has been out front for 50 years with really few problems until that 5 years ago.

Alt-right religious extremists or just humanity going crazy?
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Old 12-03-2023, 12:58 AM   #15
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More important than this cause is my support for it. So make sure that is noted. #### off.
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Old 12-03-2023, 01:09 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by RichieRich View Post
I agree and support this statement.

... and now to ask...

That said one of the issues is that these days people have to either be "for" or "against" anything, including this LGB... I think fundamentally that's a problem and causes much strife. What's wrong with simply living your life without having to be a champion of something?

Just because I'm hetero and don't embrace or participate in LBG... lifestyles/events certainly doesn't mean I'm against it - it's simply not my thing. No hate, no drama. But neither should I be vilified for *not* going to pro-LBG... events (marches etc...) or wearing pro-LGB... paraphernalia.

I recently started working with someone who I suspected of being "not-hetero". Later they freely/casually mentioned it (somehow it fit the context of the conversation), and conversation went on as normal. Anyways this person is frickin' awesome.... and it has nothing to do with their orientation. They're just top notch to deal with work-wise and a hoot to chat with. I'd definitely go for beers with them.
It’s more respectful to use LBGTQ+
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Old 12-03-2023, 01:18 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by RichieRich View Post
two things you mentioned:
1. Vilified

2. ... thrown in face... people just living and doing their thing...


My point was there's a spectrum of support for LGB...*, and a similar spectrum against. My perception/observation is that if an outward expression of support isn't made (by some) then some others choose to take that as hate or anti. And that's not fair nor truthful for most. Everyone everywhere should be able to just live and do their thing and not be judged.
Wtf are you talking about?
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Old 12-03-2023, 01:30 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichieRich View Post
two things you mentioned:
1. Vilified

2. ... thrown in face... people just living and doing their thing...


My point was there's a spectrum of support for LGB...*, and a similar spectrum against. My perception/observation is that if an outward expression of support isn't made (by some) then some others choose to take that as hate or anti. And that's not fair nor truthful for most. Everyone everywhere should be able to just live and do their thing and not be judged.

That’s very vague language.

I think the question was more about how are you being vilified for not outwardly expressing support, and your answer sounds more like you think you might get vilified, but you’re not sure, cause reasons.

The average person on the street is not being vilified, or condemned on social media, for not wearing a rainbow or going to pride events, so the perception or fear that you would seems really misguided and not really based in reality.
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Old 12-03-2023, 06:44 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by RichieRich View Post
two things you mentioned:
1. Vilified

2. ... thrown in face... people just living and doing their thing...


My point was there's a spectrum of support for LGB...*, and a similar spectrum against. My perception/observation is that if an outward expression of support isn't made (by some) then some others choose to take that as hate or anti. And that's not fair nor truthful for most. Everyone everywhere should be able to just live and do their thing and not be judged.
I have no idea what you’re driving at. You said you shouldn’t be vilified for not attending pride events…I asked you how you’re being vilified.

And the thrown in the face part is just my general observation. It’s a comment I hear quite often from men (which could be just my circles), where they say something like “I’m not opposed, but I don’t need to see this. I don’t need it thrown in my face.”
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Old 12-03-2023, 08:39 AM   #20
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Yeah I knew someone would tag onto that... and it's not intended to be antagonistic or pro-this or anti-that. Go back a few years and it started as LGB, then LGBQ, then etc etc. The reality is that for the purposes of this forum and conversation everyone knows what I mean. If you knew me personally you'd know very well it's not intended as hate or whatever. So don't make it into something it isn't. I simply didn't wish to type it all out repeatedly (call me lazy if you must) as I knew I'd typo it and then that would cause something that wasn't intended either. So my apologies... and as a followup do you want everyone here to type that all out each time or can we abbreviate for the sake having a conversation?
It’s been, at very least, “LGBT” for 30+ years. I usually find it totally understandable when people just use LGBT as it was a long running term (I generally just stop at Q). It’s a bit weird to use LGB, especially considering the only common usage of it now is from anti-trans people or people who, for whatever reason, are specifically talking about issues solely faced by LGB people and not trans people.

I, personally, have never met someone who vilified others for simply doing “nothing.” But beyond that, being concerned that someone will think you’re against LGBTQ because you don’t attend events or engage in “the lifestyle” is absurd. The only time doing “nothing” crosses that line is when people purposely avoid doing something with the stated reason of not wanting to be seen associating with or supporting LGBTQ issues. Intent matters. And it’s pretty low bar. You look at the criticism some NHL players got for “doing nothing” and it revolved around them refusing to wear a particular colourway of practice jersey (something they always wear anyway) because they didn’t want to be seen as being supportive of LGBTQ people.

I gather from some other posts that you’re pretty old, and I think your view on the matter just stems from extended ignorance and not hate or being anti-anything. You don’t have to attend Pride or “engage in the lifestyle” but if you want to be respectful you could at least avoid purposely using the wrong acronym because you’re “too lazy.” We’re talking about an extra letter or two, and the difference is whether we’re talking about issues relevant to trans and queer people or not. Since we’re talking about issues relevant to them, you could at least do that much.
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