Becoming Oilers vs Blues/Kings/Preds in wildcard race

[Murph]

Didn't know where else to put this, but anyone who thinks there is nothing wrong with the way the NHL awards points for wins and losses needs to look at the Pacific Division standings. The Flames currently sit in 4th, but have won more games than all three teams that are ahead of them.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Murph

Didn't know where else to put this, but anyone who thinks there is nothing wrong with the way the NHL awards points for wins and losses needs to look at the Pacific Division standings. The Flames currently sit in 4th, but have won more games than all three teams that are ahead of them.

The Flames have also lost a lot more games in regulation. This can mean that they got badly outplayed in their losses and were not good enough to tie up the game and force OT while the teams ahead of them were able to come back (albeit then losing in OT).

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Murph

Didn't know where else to put this, but anyone who thinks there is nothing wrong with the way the NHL awards points for wins and losses needs to look at the Pacific Division standings. The Flames currently sit in 4th, but have won more games than all three teams that are ahead of them.

A 3-2-1 system wouldn't change it very much. It would just be shuffling deck chairs.

It's a non-issue.

[Elmer]

Originally Posted by Murph

Didn't know where else to put this, but anyone who thinks there is nothing wrong with the way the NHL awards points for wins and losses needs to look at the Pacific Division standings. The Flames currently sit in 4th, but have won more games than all three teams that are ahead of them.

I'll counter that with all three teams ahead of the flames have more wins in regulation.

Ducks 36
Sharks 35
Oilers 32
Flames 30

if you used a 3 points regulation wins 2 points ot/so win 1 point ot loss

Ducks 129
Sharks 126
Oilers 123
Flames 120

if you went back to the time of Ties and no loser point (I assumed ot wins as just a win and anything that went to shootout as a tie)

Ducks 90
Sharks 89
Oilers 87 points
Flames 86 points

So for all intents and purposes the methodology of points by the NHL at this stage has zero effect on the standings other than seperating the sharks/oilers from their current tie

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Elmer

I'll counter that with all three teams ahead of the flames have more wins in regulation.

Ducks 36
Sharks 35
Oilers 32
Flames 30

if you used a 3 points regulation wins 2 points ot/so win 1 point ot loss

Ducks 129
Sharks 126
Oilers 123
Flames 120

if you went back to the time of Ties and no loser point (I assumed ot wins as just a win and anything that went to shootout as a tie)

Ducks 90
Sharks 89
Oilers 87 points
Flames 86 points

So for all intents and purposes the methodology of points by the NHL at this stage has zero effect on the standings other than seperating the sharks/oilers from their current tie

Taking off my homer glasses for the moment, I think the 3-2-1-0 point system provides a nicer and more representative allocation of position, and point separation, based on the season's performance of the 4 teams.

[Robbob]

Meh, we gave the pacific division a quarter of the season head start. We are where we are and you have to be happy with that. If anything it should be the other teams in the pacific thanking their stars that some played their games against us when we were still trying to figure out our head from our arse. To be honest, and they probably would never admit it, Edmonton was rather fortunate to get us on our only two down swings of the season. Those charity points are a big factor they are in a Pacific seed.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by keenan87

The Flames have also lost a lot more games in regulation. This can mean that they got badly outplayed in their losses and were not good enough to tie up the game and force OT while the teams ahead of them were able to come back (albeit then losing in OT).

It doesn't necessarily mean that, though some games may have played out that way. It could mean in some games they lost by a goal. Or, for the other teams, that they gave up a lead, had it tied, only to lose in OT. Lots of possibilities, not the most negative ones you listed.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by the2bears

It doesn't necessarily mean that, though some games may have played out that way. It could mean in some games they lost by a goal. Or, for the other teams, that they gave up a lead, had it tied, only to lose in OT. Lots of possibilities, not the most negative ones you listed.

I completely agree with you. Lots of possibilities and the rules are the same for everyone. The Flames were atrocious to start the year so just annoying when random stats are brought up to justify why the Flames should be higher in the standings.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Elmer

I'll counter that with all three teams ahead of the flames have more wins in regulation.

Ducks 36
Sharks 35
Oilers 32
Flames 30

if you used a 3 points regulation wins 2 points ot/so win 1 point ot loss

Ducks 129
Sharks 126
Oilers 123
Flames 120

if you went back to the time of Ties and no loser point (I assumed ot wins as just a win and anything that went to shootout as a tie)

Ducks 90
Sharks 89
Oilers 87 points
Flames 86 points

So for all intents and purposes the methodology of points by the NHL at this stage has zero effect on the standings other than seperating the sharks/oilers from their current tie

Or, how the standings should look because points are stupid beyond belief:

Calgary 43-33
San Jose 42-33 0.5GB
Anaheim 41-34 1.5GB
Edmonton 41-34 1.5GB

Anaheim ahead of Edmonton due to ROW.

Baseball and basketball do it right. Points are stupid any way you cut it IMO.

[Cactus Jack]

It serves the NHL´s purposes to artificially manufacture tighter standings and playoff races. I´d love to see a team go 0-0-82

[Elmer]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Or, how the standings should look because points are stupid beyond belief:

Calgary 43-33
San Jose 42-33 0.5GB
Anaheim 41-34 1.5GB
Edmonton 41-34 1.5GB

Anaheim ahead of Edmonton due to ROW.

Baseball and basketball do it right. Points are stupid any way you cut it IMO.

Basketball and Baseball also keep playing with full roster with the same rules in OT until there is a winner. I'm all for wins and loses only but then I would argue you have to go with traditional playoff OT rules 5vs5.

I'm sure player safety would take precedent to not having time limits, but another plus is it would stop back to backs and give fans one less thing to use as an excuse why they are behind in the standings.

[Murph]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Or, how the standings should look because points are stupid beyond belief:

Calgary 43-33
San Jose 42-33 0.5GB
Anaheim 41-34 1.5GB
Edmonton 41-34 1.5GB

Anaheim ahead of Edmonton due to ROW.

Baseball and basketball do it right. Points are stupid any way you cut it IMO.

This.

Winning and losing is all that matters.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Murph

This.

Winning and losing is all that matters.

Not when you win several games via a skills competition.

I am okay ditching the loser point of the game ends in OT but not shootout loss.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Elmer

Basketball and Baseball also keep playing with full roster with the same rules in OT until there is a winner. I'm all for wins and loses only but then I would argue you have to go with traditional playoff OT rules 5vs5.

I'm sure player safety would take precedent to not having time limits, but another plus is it would stop back to backs and give fans one less thing to use as an excuse why they are behind in the standings.

I get that their overtimes are different, but I don't see how because hockey plays overtime different that should make the game worth a loser point. It's not like one team gets an advantage. It's the same rules for both teams. It's part of the game. I agree it's gimmicky but that's the way it is.

I despise the 3 point system. I don't want a win devalued because it was won in overtime. Sure it was won in a different way than regulation, but it was still won on an even playing field.

[Sylvanfan]

I think a lot of this is Flames fans seeing a team with 43 wins and not having tie breakers on the teams most likely to push them into a first round matchup with Chicago.

3 on 3 OT is entertaining, but it's a pretty severe deviation from the 5 on 5 regulation game. This season the Flames excel in the 3 on 3 OT, and also in shoot outs. So as a result the Flames have claimed a high share of the extra points to be had.

The Flames have the 14th highest total of regulation losses. So one could argue that excelling at gimmicks is why they're in the playoffs instead of outside.

[sa226]

I think its more simple than this analysis of gimmick hockey, loser points and whatever else you can come up with.

The Flames were a dumpster fire to start the season. They are still playing catch up on their putrid start. They needed those 43 wins (and counting) to het back into contention.

Every team goes through a growing process, but had the Flames figured out their crap in training camp, instead of January, I don't think this conversation even takes place.

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[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by sa226

I think its more simple than this analysis of gimmick hockey, loser points and whatever else you can come up with.

The Flames were a dumpster fire to start the season. They are still playing catch up on their putrid start. They needed those 43 wins (and counting) to het back into contention.

Every team goes through a growing process, but had the Flames figured out their crap in training camp, instead of January, I don't think this conversation even takes place.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

Very true. Especially if they could have won a couple games against the Mc######nozzles from up north. 3 more points for us, and 4 less points for them and we aren't even thinking about wild card, just trying to clinch the division. They're lucky they caught the Flames with their pants down.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Or, how the standings should look because points are stupid beyond belief:

Calgary 43-33
San Jose 42-33 0.5GB
Anaheim 41-34 1.5GB
Edmonton 41-34 1.5GB

Anaheim ahead of Edmonton due to ROW.

Baseball and basketball do it right. Points are stupid any way you cut it IMO.

Only if you play 5 on 5 till the game is over like the playoffs...

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Baseball and basketball do it right. Points are stupid any way you cut it IMO.

The biggest sport on earth disagrees.

[Texas Flames Fan]

If they did get rid of the Oiler point it may make the games even more competitive going into OT. Win or nothing.