Stockton Heat 2016/17 General Discussion

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Darkknight

Can't help but feel Kylington is too good for the AHL in the offensive zone (look at the moves and confidence he has there) but sadly still not good enough with puck in his own end. Hard to develop that side of the game when the other comes so naturally and easily iy seems.

Maybe he should be moved to a forward position?

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Darkknight

Can't help but feel Kylington is too good for the AHL in the offensive zone (look at the moves and confidence he has there) but sadly still not good enough with puck in his own end. Hard to develop that side of the game when the other comes so naturally and easily iy seems.

I don't think Kylington will ever be a Weber or Seabrook type of shutdown defensemen, but Burns was very questionable for the bulk of his career and was even tried at forward at times, and now Burns is a Norris favorite, so it's not like it's like a defenseman needs to master both ends of the ice at the development level. Another example is Justin Schultz.

Kylington dropped in the draft because of his perceived attitude issues, which is now nowhere to be seen in his character. He always had explosive offensive abilities. There's no question Kylington can make the NHL so long as he's working on his game

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Darkknight

Can't help but feel Kylington is too good for the AHL in the offensive zone (look at the moves and confidence he has there) but sadly still not good enough with puck in his own end. Hard to develop that side of the game when the other comes so naturally and easily iy seems.

Too good for the AHL in the offensive zone? You cannot be serious. I like Kylington and think he has a very high ceiling, but the kid only has 14 points in 35 games. Being good at skating with the puck does not make him elite offensively, he needs to work on his offensive game still as well as his defensive.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Too good for the AHL in the offensive zone? You cannot be serious. I like Kylington and think he has a very high ceiling, but the kid only has 14 points in 35 games. Being good at skating with the puck does not make him elite offensively, he needs to work on his offensive game still as well as his defensive.

I think this is on the Huska/Gulutzan system. The Flames have seen almost all its players regress offensively, and since the Heat are supposed to play the same system, it's no wonder alot of the prospects on the farm aren't leaders in the AHL outside of Jankowski, whos not even in the top 50 for points in the AHL (although, Stockton plays in a shortened schedule division)

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

I think this is on the Huska/Gulutzan system. The Flames have seen almost all its players regress offensively, and since the Heat are supposed to play the same system, it's no wonder alot of the prospects on the farm aren't leaders in the AHL outside of Jankowski, whos not even in the top 50 for points in the AHL (although, Stockton plays in a shortened schedule division)

Comparing prospects to stats on other teams is dumb and not just because they play fewer games but also because other teams are older more experienced and have better veterans. You compare prospects to themselves. Kylington is improving, he has more points in fewer games than he did last year and has improved in the defensive zone.

It cannot be forgotten that the majority of the Heat's top players are either 1st, 2nd or 3rd year professionals, the only top players they have that aren't in their first 3 years as pros are Frattin, Vey, Aulie and Wotherspoon and with all due respect to them, they are not star players in the AHL.

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Comparing prospects to stats on other teams is dumb and not just because they play fewer games but also because other teams are older more experienced and have better veterans. You compare prospects to themselves. Kylington is improving, he has more points in fewer games than he did last year and has improved in the defensive zone.

It cannot be forgotten that the majority of the Heat's top players are either 1st, 2nd or 3rd year professionals, the only top players they have that aren't in their first 3 years as pros are Frattin, Vey, Aulie and Wotherspoon and with all due respect to them, they are not star players in the AHL.

Yes Kylington is improving, but is he improving as much as he could be? I really don't think so. It could be that he's just not that good but he definitely doesn't seem to be taking another step in his development. When literally every other player has had their development stall I'm really not confident that more time in the AHL is good for him. Call him and Janko up and let them make their mistakes here. They wouldn't be the worst players on this team.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

Yes Kylington is improving, but is he improving as much as he could be? I really don't think so. It could be that he's just not that good but he definitely doesn't seem to be taking another step in his development. When literally every other player has had their development stall I'm really not confident that more time in the AHL is good for him. Call him and Janko up and let them make their mistakes here. They wouldn't be the worst players on this team.

Calling Kylington up now would be pure stupidity and ruin him like the Oilers have their defensive prospects.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Comparing prospects to stats on other teams is dumb and not just because they play fewer games but also because other teams are older more experienced and have better veterans. You compare prospects to themselves. Kylington is improving, he has more points in fewer games than he did last year and has improved in the defensive zone.

It cannot be forgotten that the majority of the Heat's top players are either 1st, 2nd or 3rd year professionals, the only top players they have that aren't in their first 3 years as pros are Frattin, Vey, Aulie and Wotherspoon and with all due respect to them, they are not star players in the AHL.

I did mention that the Heat have a shortened schedule, so a more fair comparison would be to look at ppg rankngs. Jankowski is 85th in the AHL and the next best Stockton player is Shinkaruk at 101th. Now generally its true a lot of the offensive dynamos are veterans (ie, Teddy Purcell plays at a ppg pace), but not all 80-100 AHL players are veterans, and in fact, Jankowski and Mangiapane rank 13th and 39th among AHL rookies in ppg, respectively.

But IMO Jankowski is one of few players on the Heat who's benefiting from the Huska/Gulutzan system, much like how Backlund is one of the few players benefiting on the Flames. A lot of the Heat prospects playing under this system won't be top offensive players because of the system they're playing, not because of their talents.

My point wasn't to use stats to trash the Flames prospects by comparing them to other AHLers, but rather show that the prospects are suffering from the same system that the Flames suffer from in terms of stats (ie, Monahan, Bennett, Giordano and Brodie are regressing point-wise). While I disagree and think its completely fair to compare prospects to other prospects, I think in Kylington's case, if he had a different coach and system he would have better numbers, all other things being equal (much like Agostino showed). He's by no means a poor prospect, but his numbers are a reflection of the fact that the Heat aren't very good in the standings. Not the cause, but the product of this fact.

[Alberta_Beef]

Your point is irrelevant because you don't have the capability to grasp that having a more offensive system does not mean it's a better system.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Your point is irrelevant because you don't have the capability to grasp that having a more offensive system does not mean it's a better system.

When did I suggest an offensive system was better? In which third world country did you learn to read, because sadly you are being left behind? I would truly hate to have your future, knowing how cognitively handicapped you are.

[Darkknight]

I didn't mean that he should be called up to the NHL but he reminds me a lot of the way Getzlaf used to play with the puck on the ice solely because he could. It's almost to the point that rather than use your teammates properly he knows he can skate around basically the entire zone. The risk with that is that you build an over confidence because he certainly won't be able to do that at the NHL level. His defensive game has regular lapses so that is what he should focus on. My gerneral concern is that being an offensive minded blueliner could lead to him becoming bored of the AHL before the defensive side of the game catches on.

On another note compared to the AHL what would the level of competition be in the SEL? If it's higher it might be worth loaning him out for a season. I know that he should be learning on a NA rink but he just seems above his competition in certain areas here.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Comparing prospects to stats on other teams is dumb and not just because they play fewer games but also because other teams are older more experienced and have better veterans. You compare prospects to themselves. Kylington is improving, he has more points in fewer games than he did last year and has improved in the defensive zone.

It cannot be forgotten that the majority of the Heat's top players are either 1st, 2nd or 3rd year professionals, the only top players they have that aren't in their first 3 years as pros are Frattin, Vey, Aulie and Wotherspoon and with all due respect to them, they are not star players in the AHL.

In today's youth oriented NHL, if you're not knocking on the door by your third pro season you're heading for career AHL / replacement player level. Yes there are exceptions, moreso for D and G, but I don't hear anyone on this team knocking very loudly

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Your point is irrelevant because you don't have the capability to grasp that having a more offensive system does not mean it's a better system.

It is possible to disagree with someone without resorting to insults. That sure seems to happen a lot here lately. Or maybe it always has and I just didn't notice. It's too bad.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by edslunch

In today's youth oriented NHL, if you're not knocking on the door by your third pro season you're heading for career AHL / replacement player level. Yes there are exceptions, moreso for D and G, but I don't hear anyone on this team knocking very loudly

You are correct when it comes to high end players but 3-4 years in the AHL for depth forwards is hardly uncommon.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

It is possible to disagree with someone without resorting to insults. That sure seems to happen a lot here lately. Or maybe it always has and I just didn't notice. It's too bad.

Check his post history, he's clueless. I might be an #######, but I'd rather be that than have whatever mind thinks up the crap he does.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

When did I suggest an offensive system was better? In which third world country did you learn to read, because sadly you are being left behind? I would truly hate to have your future, knowing how cognitively handicapped you are.

You know only when you said he would have better numbers under a different system. That would indicate a more offensive system, would it not? It's not like I took some giant leap there Einstein.

[bubbsy]

Why is everyone so angry?

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by edslunch

In today's youth oriented NHL, if you're not knocking on the door by your third pro season you're heading for career AHL / replacement player level. Yes there are exceptions, moreso for D and G, but I don't hear anyone on this team knocking very loudly

While this is somewhat true guys like Nyquist and Tatar spent 3+ seasons in the AHL before becoming full time and I'm sure there are other examples.

[sureLoss]

Heat assign Kanzig to the ECHL.

[Darkknight]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

Maybe he should be moved to a forward position?

It's funny, I've thought the same thing. I don't know of many players that have switched from D to O but I know Byfuglien has been used as both through his career. Might not be a terrible experiment to try for a couple of games.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Heat assign Kanzig to the ECHL.

This means he must be healthy. I hope he sees some more time next year, the Heat really need a solid stay at home guy and I'd like to see what he can do.