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Old 11-28-2015, 10:57 AM   #21
saillias
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Originally Posted by PepsiFree View Post
There are a few very young guys in there but really is no excuse for guys like Backlund and Stajan to be under 50%.

I also disagree with Cali, face offs are HUGE. It's part of the reason why having great centres matters.
http://faceoffs.net/player/mikael-backlund

If you expect Backlund to be above 50%, ever, you're gonna be disappointed.
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Old 11-28-2015, 10:58 AM   #22
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Interesting Faceoff breakdowns by nhl.com (so who knows if accurate)

Offensive zone faceoff %:
Monahan 61.4%
Backlund 40.2%
Stajan 20.2%
Bennett 51.6%

Defensive zone faceoff %:
Monahan 33.5%
Backlund 51.8%
Stajan 80.7%
Bennett 32.3%

Neutral zone faceoff %:
Monahan 49.7%
Backlund 46.2%
Stajan 52.6%
Bennett 50%

Last edited by sureLoss; 11-28-2015 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:06 AM   #23
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Backlund
Im not sure why some people are so high on Backlund. He has little offensive upside, hes no good in the dot, hes not physical, all anyone can defend him with is he has 'good corsi'.

Monahan
Will get better. Hes up against tough opposition in the dot.

Bennet
Young. Will get better.

Stajan
Pretty much .500 on the dot. Can't complain there.

Out of those Backlund needs to be better. Hes MAYBE a third line center on a good team.

Last edited by Samonadreau; 11-28-2015 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:10 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by saillias View Post
http://faceoffs.net/player/mikael-backlund

If you expect Backlund to be above 50%, ever, you're gonna be disappointed.
That's what pisses me off about him. If he's suppose to be a great shut-down third line centre like he is talked about on this site, why can't he win a face-off to save his life?
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:30 AM   #25
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The fact that Backlund is so poor at face-offs has always been the sticking point keeping him from becoming a guy like Bergeron. He has many of the other skills that Bergeron has (less exceptional offensively clearly), but he has always been a liability on the dot.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:36 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by sureLoss View Post
Interesting Faceoff breakdowns by nhl.com (so who knows if accurate)

Offensive zone faceoff %:
Monahan 61.4%
Backlund 40.2%
Stajan 20.2%
Bennett 51.6%

Defensive zone faceoff %:
Monahan 33.5%
Backlund 51.8%
Stajan 80.7%
Bennett 32.3%

Neutral zone faceoff %:
Monahan 49.7%
Backlund 46.2%
Stajan 52.6%
Bennett 50%
That's really strange for Stajan. Win's 80% when he has to go stick down first, and 20% when he's supposed to have the advantage.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:38 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Oil Stain View Post
Top 5 teams on the faceoff:

Spoiler!

Looks pretty random to me. Los Angeles is a top special teams club despite being at the bottom of the league in faceoffs. The other teams besides Calgary are pretty midpack.

The leaders league wide in PP and PK are scattered around in terms of faceoff effectiveness.

Just from a quick look, it doesn't appear that everything is related to winning or losing then draw on special teams.
I'd be curious to see the stats for their faceoff %'s on special teams though. I'm guessing even these bottom teams in overall percentage have a specialist they throw out for PK, and at least one decent guy to win them for the PP.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:48 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan View Post
The fact that Backlund is so poor at face-offs has always been the sticking point keeping him from becoming a guy like Bergeron. He has many of the other skills that Bergeron has (less exceptional offensively clearly), but he has always been a liability on the dot.
Now you're just insulting Bergeron. Not even close.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:49 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan View Post
OK, let me clarify. Being under 50% isn't a big deal. <clipped for space>
While individually this is all true, when the entire group is bad, it compounds any problems caused by losing draws whether they are overstated or not.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:50 AM   #30
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Now you're just insulting Bergeron. Not even close.
Not really. He's spot-on.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:34 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by GranteedEV View Post
Not really. He's spot-on.
Saying if Backlund was better offensively and better in the dot he would be like Bergeron is basically like saying if he was a lot better he would be like Bergeron. Like saying if a crap steak was a better cut and cooked better it would be a good steak. Is that spot on though?
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:36 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by GranteedEV View Post
Not really. He's spot-on.
So take away two of the major things that make Bergeron so valuable (and Backlund is not in his class defensively either so really all 3 things that make Bergeron valuable) and Backlund is like Bergeron?

Aren't there a ton of players in the league that fit that description?

Backlund isn't anything like Bergeron. He can't score close to as well as he can, he isn't one of the top FO guys in the league, he isn't elite defensively. The similarities seem to be that they both play center and it is starting to look like Backlund probably shouldn't share that with Bergeron going forward.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:46 PM   #33
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The fact that Backlund is so poor at face-offs has always been the sticking point keeping him from becoming a guy like Bergeron. He has many of the other skills that Bergeron has (less exceptional offensively clearly), but he has always been a liability on the dot.
I can think of 5 things that are keeping Backlund from being Bergeron. Hockey IQ, passing, probably the weakest shot in the NHL, face offs, physical play.

So pretty much what is holding me back from being a Bergeron.

And that's not a slight to Backlund as much as it's a compliment to Bergeron.
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:49 PM   #34
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If Backlund was an ace in the dot he'd be a core piece going forward for this team. But since he isn't and hasn't really improved, I see him more as a place holder. He's clearly 3rd on the C depth chart but can't win a faceoff, which an ideal centre can do (ideal centres are physical too). I don't see Backlund being a key piece moving forward for this reason.... The same goes for Granlund, unless he can successfully convert to wing.
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Old 11-28-2015, 02:25 PM   #35
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It isn't 100% on the centers. A faceoff win is given to the team that first gets clear possession of the puck. I'd like to see the wingers fight harder for loose pucks. Losing Bouma didn't help things either.
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Old 11-28-2015, 02:42 PM   #36
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I have to admit, Monahan losing the face-off in overtime last night is part of what lost the Flames the game. It's huge in OT.
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Old 11-28-2015, 02:57 PM   #37
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I have to admit, Monahan losing the face-off in overtime last night is part of what lost the Flames the game. It's huge in OT.

If they scored on that chance then it would. They regained control in their own zone and after that it was anyone's game.
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Old 11-28-2015, 10:55 PM   #38
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Granlund led the Flames in FO percentage at 71% in the Sharks game. Just like that he's up to 47.4 for the season and 63.6 pct since being recalled.

Last edited by robbie111; 11-28-2015 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 11-29-2015, 04:05 AM   #39
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Face offs are an overrated statistic. They feel important, but they actually aren't.

It takes something like a +70 differential in face off wins to result in a single expected goal. The difference between the best and worst teams in face offs is a win either way: the very best team gains a single win, the very worst team loses a win, and that's over the course of an entire season. We're a lot more than a single win away from being competitive in the league right now.

There are other areas of the Flames' game which require vastly more attention than our face offs.

Edit: And if you want to criticize any of our players on face offs, the last one you should be mad at is Monahan. The dude takes an absolutely massive number of draws. He's taken the 4th most draws of any player in the whole league. Last year he finished 7th. This year Only O'Reilly, Giroux, and Little have taken more. He's tied with Bergeron. The kid is a horse, and he's won the 10th most of any player in the league. He's outright won more draws than Kopitar, H. Sedin, Backstrom, Tavares, Getzlaf, MacKinnon... many of these players he's won almost 100 more face offs than.

Yes, his percentage could go up, but when you consider that he's 21 years old and the next most heavily-used face-off taker of similar age is 22 year-old Mika Zibanejad who has taken 151 fewer draws than Monahan, I think we can lay off the kid.

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Old 11-29-2015, 06:57 AM   #40
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Can we hire Joel Otto as a faceoff coach?
Last I heard he resides here in Calgary.

Just seem our faceoffs have been so dismal for so many years.
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