[CP Story] Did the Flames Miss the Playoffs on July 1st?

[Bingo]

http://www.calgarypuck.com/2015/11/d...s-on-july-1st/

[GioforPM]

I'm not sure that any one item can take credit for the Flames' situation. The Ramo signing was, in hindsight, not a great idea. But you also had Brodie hurt, which caused at least as many issues for the defence as the goalies struggling.

[burn_this_city]

The three headed monster ruined the confidence of the goaltenders. Hopefully now they start playing better without the prospect of a trade or assignment hanging over them.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

The real mistake was not waiving Hiller or Ramo before the season started. Treliving should've told Hartley to pick his number 1 and Ortio will be the backup. No choice, no three headed goalie monster.

That being said, if the three headed goalie thing was truly enough to shatter the morale in the room, I would suggest they weren't good enough to begin with.

I think people are still struggling to come to grips with the reality that last year's team overachieved big time and replicating that success was going to be like trying to catch lightning in a bottle again. The simplest answer is usually the right one, and I don't think the number of goalies on the roster is the simplest answer. I can't see a team like Chicago or NYR having their season destroyed over such a thing. Management and coaches need to look in the mirror, I think they fell into the trap of heightened expectations the same way the fans did. Thing is, they should know better, they're the ones getting paid the big bucks to know things like that.

The team's just not ready and that's okay. Every move for the next 12 months should be that of a rebuilding team. If Treliving chooses to go in another direction, that's on him and it will likely cost him his job.

[polak]

I think we missed the playoffs whenever the freak accident took place that made Giordano and Wideman brain dead and turned them into terrible defensemen.

[Erick Estrada]

Did you write this story before or after my posts this morning because it's along the lines of what I was saying? I'm in line with your thinking although I feel even with great goaltending the team would be down from last season as the offensive production is down but to me July 1st was the catalyst for the poor start.

I also believe we may look back one day and feel that falling out of the playoff run early is for the best as the team will reap the benefits of trading guys like Russell and Hudler without any pressure to keep the team together. I also believe that it's time like this that are the best for truly evaluating players. Treliving now knows that Wideman, Hudler, Russell, Ramo, Hiller are not part of the future. He knows that finding a capable starting goaltender for next October is priority one and there will be no more of this 1A/1B nonsense. He also knows guys like Jooris are not building blocks and that Backlund doesn't have another level. They will likely go into the draft with a top 10 pick and maybe a late 1st round pick and/or a bunch of 2nd round picks and hopefully they can make the picks count as the Flames young players on the roster like Gadreau, Monahan, Bennett are going to get raises and the team will need to fill out their roster with players from their system to remain under the cap. I'm looking forward to a better offseason next year and the team to take two steps forward after this season's step back.

Another positive is that it appears Burke is letting Treliving do his thing as I don't believe Burke would have ever got into this 3 headed goaltending situation.

[Finger Cookin]

The goalie situation is the biggest mistake Treliving has made to date. He simply out thought himself. The big mistake would have become catastrophic had Ortio been claimed, but thankfully Treliving had the right read on that decision.

I hope he acquires a medium term starter around the draft this summer, so he doesn't have to wade into the mediocre free agent market for one. Ortio can be the regular backup to start, and then the situation can sort itself out over the course of next season.

I will say that I think Hiller's stabilizing presence in net was a factor in making the playoffs last season though. The goaltending didn't carry the team in. But Hiller did give the Flames far and away the most consistent, quality goaltending as a starter that the team has had since Kiprusoff retired. Without that last season, it's doubtful the Flames make it in - just like without the high shooting percentage, the comebacks, or the OT success the Flames wouldn't have made it in. It took a lot of factors going almost perfectly that allowed the playoff run last season. Improved, though not lights out spectacular, goaltending was one of them.

[Steve Bozek]

I agree with you, but I think some of the teams below them last year (case in point, tonight's opponent, the Coyotes) have made more significant off-season improvements than the Flames. Frolik has been a positive addition, but, although I'm optimistic about his future, Hamilton hasn't been as much of an upgrade on Schlemko/Smid as he should have been. Adding to that, Giordano and Wideman are definitely not as good as they were last year. Injuries to Bouma and Brodie didn't help. The forwards, with the exception of Gaudreau, Bennet and Colborne haven't been as consistent as last year.

Bottom line: The team's performance at all levels hasn't matched last year's performance, or matched the improvements of the teams they have to beat for playoff positions. I fear that several of the Flames' key veterans (Giordano, Wideman, Hudler), as well as the lesser ones like Stajan, Bollig, are starting to show they've passed their "best before" date.

[dammage79]

Goaltending is by far and away the #1 problem for Calgary right now. It is the decision makers fault. Treliving for Giving Hartley too many to work with, And Hartley for being stupid enough to try the one and done method for so long. Everyone and their dog knows goalies work better when they're not wondering if they'll start or not tomorrow. Look at Ramo, he gets 12 in a row and raises his SV% to .889 (lol, raises to, like its a good thing). Adding a few wins into the mix too.

To me, as long as the Flames have Ramo/Hiller, the season is a loss. And I really like Hiller. Would love if he got all the starts, win or lose. Just like Hartley is doing with Ramo right now.

And the way Ortio has been dealt with is infuriating. I don't really care for the rumors of him not doing whatever during practice, frankly I think it's bullcrap.
Guy is 24 years old and on the cusp. Needs a block of games to show if he really does have it or not. Not 2 separated starts and a couple of fill ins because the "vet" sucked.

[Rick M.]

So, let's see if I've got it right. Competition for jobs is great for forwards and defencemen (everything earned, nothing given...yadda, yadda) but it reduces goalies' brains to scrambled mush. We didn't have consistent goaltending last season either. It's just that when one got cold, the other got hot. All were cold at the same time this year.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

So, let's see if I've got it right. Competition for jobs is great for forwards and defencemen (everything earned, nothing given...yadda, yadda) but it reduces goalies' brains to scrambled mush. We didn't have consistent goaltending last season either. It's just that when one got cold, the other got hot. All were cold at the same time this year.

Which, when combined - gave the team consistently competent goaltending.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Which, when combined - gave the team consistently competent goaltending.

A lot of teams these days seem to be running a 1a/1b goaltending scenario.

I think we're the only ones trying to run a 1a/1b/2 ....

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

A lot of teams these days seem to be running a 1a/1b goaltending scenario.

I think we're the only ones trying to run a 1a/1b/2 ....

Well, we are just running a 2a/3a/3b.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Well, we are just running a 2a/3a/3b.

is Hiller the 3b?

[Huntingwhale]

While I think the goaltending situation played a part in the overall crappyness of the team, I think the shoddy system/defence that still plagues us to this very day is the #1 reason.

18 individuals (outside of a few) playing poorly vs 3 playing poorly

If our high priced D was actually playing their worth, suddenly the 3 goalie thing doesn't look so bad if we are winning. Having said that, all 3 goalies played bad to start. Hiller being so bad is the most shocking to me. He's been pretty consistent over his career. I find it hard to believe he's fallen off like this. I fully hope that when he returns, he stabilizes the crease for the rest of the season.

I remember when the Oilers had the 3 headed monster for a bit and we all hooted and hollered at them. Now people do that to us

Good article again.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

So, let's see if I've got it right. Competition for jobs is great for forwards and defencemen (everything earned, nothing given...yadda, yadda) but it reduces goalies' brains to scrambled mush. We didn't have consistent goaltending last season either. It's just that when one got cold, the other got hot. All were cold at the same time this year.

I see what you're saying and you do have a point.

But honestly I think we all realize that goaltending IS different. It just is. As the last line of defense they are just a bigger impact when they are either really good, or conversely really bad.

I think you see forwards collapsing helping a weak defense, and dmen taking chances to make up for a forward group that can't score.

But far and away a weak goaltender literally changes the way everyone on the ice is playing. It's so impactful.

Plus .. goalies don't get healthy scratched. Fair or not they don't have to deal with that not being dressed thing. You have 2 on a team which is why everyone said 3 doesn't work coming into a season, and it didn't.

Confidence as a goaltender is paramount and the three goalie system robs them of it and net time in practice.

And they knew that. They got stuck. If Treliving turned Hiller into a 3rd he would have looked brilliant.

[Resolute 14]

TIL that if we hadn't signed Ramo, all of our goalies would not turned to mush in the first four weeks of the season. Dougie Hamilton would have been fantastic. Giordano would not have turned into an Oilers defenceman. Josh Jooris would not have returned to being an AHL level player. Other skaters would not have significantly lower scoring averages. Our team defence would not be so poor, and this roster would have been no less willing to go through a wall this year than they would last.


Nope. If only we hadn't signed Karri Ramo. We'd probably be battling for the Presidents' Trophy.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

is Hiller the 3b?

Assign numbers as you see fit.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

TIL that if we hadn't signed Ramo, all of our goalies would not turned to mush in the first four weeks of the season. Dougie Hamilton would have been fantastic. Giordano would not have turned into an Oilers defenceman. Josh Jooris would not have returned to being an AHL level player. Other skaters would not have significantly lower scoring averages. Our team defence would not be so poor, and this roster would have been no less willing to go through a wall this year than they would last.


Nope. If only we hadn't signed Karri Ramo. We'd probably be battling for the Presidents' Trophy.

So you don't agree then? I get the feeling you don't agree.

Fair enough, ....

I just think when you have a team that over achieves with insanely pro culture it's a really fine line, and you just don't know what little move can be the apple cart move.

I think the goalie thing was said move.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Reasons for poor season IMO:

-Expected regression to the mean in results relative to advance stats (despite improvement in those stats)
-Overcorrection of team play well past the mean for PDO
-Abysmal special teams
-Inexplicably horrible play from key veterans (Giordano, Hudler, Wideman)
-Adjustment period for rookies and new additions (Bennett, Ferland, Hamilton)
-3 goaltender situation (a cop out as far as I'm concerned)
-Poor luck in close games
-Loss of team identity
-Overconfidence in abilities to come back in games


The 3 goalie situation was one of just many, many factors that have plagued this team this season. If it was a problem, it's 100% on them as professionals. The fact that all 3 had issues with it means that none of them were ever really the answer to begin with, and we just found out now instead of down the road. Really, it only mattered in the first 10-12 games or so, and ever since then the Flames have been a .500 club, which isn't terrible but they aren't much better than the way they started the year. Special teams matter much more to the success of a club that the intangible of "chemistry", and the Flames are at the bottom of the league because they haven't dedicated themselves to hard work and team systems on special teams. In fact, most of their problems this year are a lack of dedication to the system and trusting that they will have success if they just implement it well. They've fixed most of the problems and become a better team most of the time, but to pin all the problems on one small issue that only lasted the early part of the season is vastly oversimplifying a complex problem.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. ~H.L. Mencken