Who has value on this team?

[polak]

So this team is obviously not going anywhere this season. It's time to see what we can salvage through trades and hope we can get back to improving as a team. It would be terrible if we had nothing to show for this year besides regressing to a worse team than 2013-2014. Now I was thinking about who has value on this team... It's pretty grim.

What do you think we can get for our tradable players? Didn't include Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett or Brodie for obvious reasons and also didn’t include anyone who I thought had negative trade value (Raymond, Bollig, the goalies).

Hudler - Probably the most valuable asset we have but he's a pending UFA and while he hasn't been bad so far, he's not quite at the same pace as last year with 12 points in 17 games.

Russell - Personally I think he might be our most valuable player. He should have a good rep still as he's leading the league again in shot blocks. However, he does only have 2 points in 17 games. Pending UFA. (Weird, I thought he was extended)


Backlund - Started off rough but I think he's been playing great since he's been put with Bennett. I think we should leave him there and either let him develop some chemistry or raise his value for a trade. He's young enough that he could still be in his prime when this team is ready to contend. 7 points in 17 games. UFA in the 18/19 season.

Wideman - Well we know how he's been this year. Signed through 2016-2017. 0 goals 7 assists in 17 games.

Bouma - Hurt a lot but coming off a career high season last year and hasn't played enough this year to really diminish his value. Last year he had 34 points in 78 games. Year younger than Backlund. UFA in the 18/19 season.

Colborne - Big guy but not much of a point getter with 28 points being his career high. 5 points in 12 games. Pending RFA

Frolik - Just signed a long term deal with the Flames. Has played well this season. 8 points in 17 games. Signed until 19/20

Jones - Hard to put my finger on him. Seems like he scores in bunches but personally, I think his defensive play has been an issue this year. 5 goals 0 assists in 17 games. Pending UFA.

Ferland - We all love him for what he did in the Vancouver season but the guy has been a borderline NHL'er outside of those 6 games. He might hold quite a bit of value despite that though due to the hype he built up in that series. 1 point in 9 games this season, 3 points in 26 games last. Pending RFA.

Stajan – Has heart and is a solid bottom 6 player. Not putting up much for points though, 2 in 17 games. UFA in 18/19

Jooris – I’m not going to share my thoughts on him but since he’s been moved away from Gaudreau, he’s playing far more within what was expected of him (best case scenario too) when he was signed out of the NCAA. 3 points in 15 games. Pending RFA

Engelland - He’s been a great bottom pairing defenseman this season. Contract is steep though and he isn’t a UFA until 17/18.

Giordano - Err. Almost left him off the list. I don’t think any team touches his contract with the way he’s played so far this year. Maybe you disagree.

So what do you think these guys could fetch? Are there any packages you think you could throw together for some assets? Are we stuck?

Personally, I think Russell, Hudler and Backlund are our best trade bait. I don’t think we’d get much of anything for anyone else.

[devo22]

Generally speaking, I think people are overreacting at the moment. The team overachieved last year and it's easy to forget that this is still a rebuild. Now there's some adversity for the first time ... but that doesn't mean the Flames are headed in the wrong direction or anything. Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Brodie and Hamilton are still an unreal core to build around.

Obviously Hudler, Russell and Jones are valuable trade chips as pending UFAs, so if the Flames can't reach extensions that make sense, it's best to trade them at the deadline. Also Wideman and Backlund could have some value.

[polak]

If we're worse than last year and the year before... how are we not headed in the wrong direction? Unless you see players on the farm that are looking like they'll be able to fill in the gaps around Gaudreau, Bennett, Monahan and Brodie and be an improvement, I'd definitely say we are heading in the wrong direction.

[SofaProfessor]

Right now you'd be selling low on almost everyone on that list. Russell and Hudler make sense to sell at some point in the season because I can't see a scenario where they're back next year.

[zukes]

The top three guys I would trade are:

1) Hudler - can likely get a decent young forward prospect and maybe a 3rd round pick for him at least

2) Wideman - unlikely to get much more than a 3rd round pick unless they retain salary, but it may be worth it to clear money and re-sign Russell

3) Stajan - likely only get a mid to late round pick but still, salary out helps keep the core

If you can get anything at all for Bollig, Engelland, Smid or Raymond you do it instantly.

Of the top of my head I wouldn't trade anything else unless blown away.

[Ashasx]

You wouldn't trade Russell?

The Flames better not make the mistake of extending him this off-season.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by polak

If we're worse than last year and the year before... how are we not headed in the wrong direction? Unless you see players on the farm that are looking like they'll be able to fill in the gaps around Gaudreau, Bennett, Monahan and Brodie and be an improvement, I'd definitely say we are heading in the wrong direction.

This is still the same group that was one of the last 8 standing only six months ago, plus two valuable new pieces. Now they play badly for a fifth of a season and it's all doom and gloom all of a sudden?

Nobody said there's steady improvement in a rebuild without any growing pains.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by polak

If we're worse than last year and the year before... how are we not headed in the wrong direction? Unless you see players on the farm that are looking like they'll be able to fill in the gaps around Gaudreau, Bennett, Monahan and Brodie and be an improvement, I'd definitely say we are heading in the wrong direction.

Because despite last season the Flames are still building their team. Last year was a burst of speed in a marathon, time to catch our breath and continue to run.

Hamilton, Brodie, Monahan, Gadreau, Bennett are strong and important building blocks.

Yes, there are some pieces on the farm potential stars like Gillies and role players and tweeners like Grandlund, Poirier, Klimchuk. The 1st round pick this year, especially if we continue to play poorly, will be just as an important pick as Bennett was.

Hopefully we can turn two of Hudler, Russel and Wideman into several top 60 picks.

[polak]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Because despite last season the Flames are still building their team. Last year was a burst of speed in a marathon, time to catch our breath and continue to run.

Hamilton, Brodie, Monahan, Gadreau, Bennett are strong and important building blocks.

Yes, there are some pieces on the farm potential stars like Gillies and role players and tweeners like Grandlund, Poirier, Klimchuk. The 1st round pick this year, especially if we continue to play poorly, will be just as an important pick as Bennett was.

Hopefully we can turn two of Hudler, Russel and Wideman into several top 60 picks.

I agree with you assessment of the farm and our upcoming 1st rounder.

I disagree with this notion that "we're rebuilding" somehow excuses the massive step back we've seen. Gaudreau and Bennett are the only ones who improved from last year. That's worrying.

[The Yen Man]

I agree with Friedman this morning. Flames should not be making moves for the sake of making moves at the moment. It sucks to deal from a position of weakness. At this point, I think Flames should ride out the season, start unloading pending UFAs, and look long term.

Untouchables (unless the deal is ridiculously good for the Flames) are Brodie, Hamilton, Gaudreau, Bennett, and Monahan.

Need to start trying to trade Hudler, Jones, Wideman, and Russell if there is a market for them.

Everyone else on the team is tradeable.

[Vinny01]

Fans are overreacting but rightfully so. The rational part of me is saying "this team is still rebuilding and this fall back is not a surprise" but the fact is last year happened and Treliving had a hell of a summer adding 2 much needed pieces. I expected this team to be easily a top 3 in the pacific this year. The fact they suck is unfortunate but I am no where near as angry as I was in 09/10 when they melted down.

I look at our free agents and see value there.
Jones- mid pick like a 3rd
Hudler - 2nd and a prospect
Russell - 2nd, 3rd
Hiller - 6th at the deadline
Ramo - 7th at the deadline

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by polak

I disagree with this notion that "we're rebuilding" somehow excuses the massive step back we've seen. Gaudreau and Bennett are the only ones who improved from last year. That's worrying.

Two weeks ago everyone wanted Bennett back in the OHL and Hamilton jettisoned to the Moon. Now they're both playing strong hockey. Young players don't develop in a continued upward trajectory, they will struggle. It doesn't excuse anything, it's the way it works.

Monahan isn't playing well now but he'll find his game. Similar talk last year when he had only scored in one game (2 goals) in his first 13 games. Even this year he's on pace for 19 goals and over 50 points and I have every faith in the world Sean Monahan isn't done growing defensively.

Don't think that's making excuses IMO.

[polak]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Two weeks ago everyone wanted Bennett back in the OHL and Hamilton jettisoned to the Moon. Now they're both playing strong hockey. Young players don't develop in a continued upward trajectory, they will struggle. It doesn't excuse anything, it's the way it works.

Monahan isn't playing well now but he'll find his game. Similar talk last year when he had only scored in one game (2 goals) in his first 13 games. Even this year he's on pace for 19 goals and over 50 points and I have every faith in the world Sean Monahan isn't done growing defensively.

Don't think that's making excuses IMO.

I'm not really worried about Monahan either. If I was, I'd list him as a tradable asset. An occasional offseason by young players is fine. But when it's your entire team minus two players?

[Erick Estrada]

IMO you have to be realistic of the plight of the team and the fact that they are still at least two years away from being a really good team. I know it's not a popular sentiment but I feel Giordano is their best trade chip because he should be able to fetch a quality player such as Matt Duchene for example to a team that has an extreme need at defenseman. I just feel with his injury history and penchant for spotty play every odd year that an eye has to be kept on the salary cap in the coming years. The raises that will be required for Monahan, Bennett, Gadreau, and first and a quality goaltender are going to put this team close to the cap ceiling. I feel his contract is going to be similar to the Ference contract in Edmonton except worse because the money is $6 million and just based on his play alone this season it's hard to imagine him as an effective player when he's between 36-39 years old. Not a popular decision but IMO this is the time to do it before that deal kicks in and could be looked at as another dodged bulled similar to the ROR trade Feaster dodged which would have been disastrous for the organization.

Lets not forget now that trading Iginla a year or two earlier wouldn't have been looked at as a popular decision but in hindsight the organization would have been much better off doing just that. Sometimes you have to take emotion out of the decision and just do the logical thing. We know the deal is going to be a hindrance in 3-4 years so deal with it now and don't look back.

[dash_pinched]

Personally, I would rather move Wideman than Russell, but if you can get a nice return for Russell, I think Treliving needs to pull the trigger.

[Weitz]

I really don't think Russell has much value.

Small
-13
2 points
UFA

You're not going to get much for him.

[Roof-Daddy]

With the start the Flames have had, hopefully Treliving is able to load up on picks for the 2016 draft and it would be nice if we could catch lightning in a bottle as far as the lottery goes.

This, of course, is assuming the Flames don't turn it around and miraculously make the playoffs.

Hudler, Jones, Russell should be able to get us some more picks.

Wideman, Smid, Engelland and Raymond will be tougher to move because they have another year left on their deals.

Sure would be nice if the goalie market did a 180 so BT could move Hiller and/or Ramo for pick(s) as well.

[CSharp]

Is this one of those blow it all up thread because the sky has fallen again in cowtown? I thought the Flames did that like 2 or 3 years ago? I think they're very much on track with the rebuild. Last year was just an exceptional blip due to the McDavid sweepstakes. Everything is back to normal in the NHL now.

[CroFlames]

If Brad thinks the season is lost already, then there is no point trading now. Wait till the deadline when teams are set to make playoff runs and load up on complimentary pieces. Trading anyone right now would likely mean the Flames get fleeced.

If he thinks the season is salvageable, it's extremely risky right now to trade and try to upgrade. If I'm GM, I wait it out until the deadline both ways.

This group went to the 2nd round last year. They may yet be some magic left in them.

[polak]

I definitely agree with waiting until the deadline. They've pretty much hit rock bottom in terms of damage they can do to their value in one season. They can only really improve or stay the same from here until March.