Tij Iginla ranked No. 10 overall by Bob McKenzie for 2024 NHL Draft

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Matthews game has improved to the point he's one of the best 2-way centers in the league which is anything but one-dimensional. He just happens to perform the most difficult task in the NHL better than almost everyone else while excelling at both ends of the ice.

That’s not my point.

I’m saying I’d rather have a classic #1 C the likes of Crosby, Mackinnon who can score goals and they know it, but they also make their linemates better and you can plug in a lesser talent on their wing and get production.

Matthew’s is a shoot first C. He’s an elite goal scorer no one is denying that.

Crosby and Mackinnon have also had 50 goal seasons along with 50 plus assists. You know what else they have done? Produce in the playoffs and won cups.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

That’s not my point.

I’m saying I’d rather have a classic #1 C the likes of Crosby, Mackinnon who can score goals and they know it, but they also make their linemates better and you can plug in a lesser talent on their wing and get production.

Matthew’s is a shoot first C. He’s an elite goal scorer no one is denying that.

Crosby and Mackinnon have also had 50 goal seasons along with 50 plus assists. You know what else they have done? Produce in the playoffs and won cups.

Matthews must be pretty good to be compared to generational players no? He hasn't been able to elevate himself in the playoffs for sure to but be fair if you replaced him with Crosby or MacKinnon I don't think either of them could carry that Leafs roster to a cup. It's a bottom 15 roster that happens to have four really good forwards. Good enough to have regular season success but exposed in the post season for being what they are.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Matthews game has improved to the point he's one of the best 2-way centers in the league which is anything but one-dimensional. He just happens to perform the most difficult task in the NHL better than almost everyone else while excelling at both ends of the ice.

No one is arguing that Matthews is not a great centre and goal scorer.

He just isn't in the same league as McKinnon and Crosby in all around play, especially in producing in the playoffs.

Players like Toews and Bergeron didn't have the offensive skills of Mathews, nor the talent level, but each come playoff time did more to help their teams win than Matthews has done.

Some players come playoff time can lift their level of play. No one considered Duncan Keith the best dman in the league, but come playoff time, he reminded us how good he really was. Toronto doesn't have enough of those players. They may not have any actually.

The next two games gives Toronto and its players a chance to prove that premise wrong.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Matthews must be pretty good to be compared to generational players no? He hasn't been able to elevate himself in the playoffs for sure to but be fair if you replaced him with Crosby or MacKinnon I don't think either of them could carry that Leafs roster to a cup. It's a bottom 15 roster that happens to have four really good forwards. Good enough to have regular season success but exposed in the post season for being what they are.

I don't know. Crosby had some pretty bad D cores. Outside of Letang, he had guys like Ian Cole, Trevor Daley, Brian Doumoulin, Justin Shultz, Maatta, Scuderi. Not exactly deep.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I don't know. Crosby had some pretty bad D cores. Outside of Letang, he had guys like Ian Cole, Trevor Daley, Brian Doumoulin, Justin Shultz, Maatta, Scuderi. Not exactly deep.

He also had a HOF 2nd line center in Malkin, a likely HOF goaltender in Fleury, and while Letang may not make the HOF he blows away Rielly.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

He also had a HOF 2nd line center in Malkin, a likely HOF goaltender in Fleury, and while Letang may not make the HOF he blows away Rielly.

I guess the 1000 points Tavares has put is nothing?

Also I am not here to discredit what Matthews has done, and can do. It's not even a playoff thing either.

Really what I am trying to say is you have more success with a center who has a better goal to assist ratio. I was using those guys to prove my point. Matthews would be a fine left winger.

[bdubbs]

Matthews is a great goal scorer, but I hardly think of him when asked which C I would take to win a game 7 in the Finals. There are a handful that I'd take before him.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bdubbs

Matthews is a great goal scorer, but I hardly think of him when asked which C I would take to win a game 7 in the Finals. There are a handful that I'd take before him.

Namely, guys that have won a Finals: Mackinnon and Crosby.

[Roof-Daddy]

Craig Button just proclaimed that if 16 year old Gavin McKenna was in this years draft he would challenge Celebrini for 1st overall and would go 1st or 2nd overall.

[timun]

Is anyone seriously listening to Craig Button's opinions?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by timun

Is anyone seriously listening to Craig Button's opinions?

He's not wrong about McKenna

[Canada 02]

Conroy interview at the U18s. Nothing special, but I like hearing from the GM, even if it is fluff

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/conroy-...knowle~2915082

the one nugget of info is Jarome's knowledge of this draft class and the next two. Conny mentioned previously that Jarome knows a lot of the New England players from his time coaching in the Boston area.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Craig Button just proclaimed that if 16 year old Gavin McKenna was in this years draft he would challenge Celebrini for 1st overall and would go 1st or 2nd overall.

He might well go first. But no lower than 2nd.

McKenna at this stage likely has higher upside, but he's 2 years away, so that has quite a bit of risk.

It would depend on the teams opinion on these two players.

[Wastedyouth]

Hagens is better than Mckenna right now. (as he should be, he's a year older). If he was draft eligible I could see Hagens going top 2.

[AustinL_NHL]

Yea... let's just forego the draft lottery win this year so we can use up our two lottery wins B2B on McKenna & Hagens

[Tbull8]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Yea... let's just forego the draft lottery win this year so we can use up our two lottery wins B2B on McKenna & Hagens

OR

Celebrini + Hagens

Vegas falls of a cliff and their pick wins the 2026 draft

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

OR

Celebrini + Hagens

Vegas falls of a cliff and their pick wins the 2026 draft

I did hesitate posting because I also thought about that but I didn't know the exact rules surrounding the 2-win lottery limit and if it also applied to acquired picks. I gave up after a quick Google search lol

So yes, let's do that instead ahaha

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

I did hesitate posting because I also thought about that but I didn't know the exact rules surrounding the 2-win lottery limit and if it also applied to acquired picks. I gave up after a quick Google search lol

So yes, let's do that instead ahaha

This is what you were looking for :

https://media.nhl.com/public/news/14767

(3) Limit on Teams Winning a Lottery Draw

No single team will be able to advance in the Draft order by reason of winning a Lottery Draw more than two (2) times in any five (5) year period. This limitation will not affect a Club’s ability to retain its presumptive Draft position in any Draft Lottery, nor would it preclude the possibility of the Club moving down in Draft Order to the extent other Clubs advance by reason of winning the Lottery Draws. For purposes of clarity, the limitation would attach to the team, not the specific pick.

[Freeway]

"...no Club will be able to move-up in the Draft Order by reason of winning a Lottery Draw any more than two (2) times during the period of 2022 through 2026."

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

We’re talking about them being equally difficult, not whether their value is equal. But since you’re conceding they aren’t the same difficulty, we can move onto the value thing.

Your numbers don’t point to any sort of equal value, and just by thinking about it logically, it’s an easy argument to dismiss. Every game, there are probably hundreds of events that prevent a potential goal. Saves are the last resort, but everything from blocks, hits, poke checks, interceptions, takeaways, etc all suppress potential goals. If every act of goal suppression is equal value to scoring a goal, that suggests Vincent Desharnais should make more than McDavid… which… lol. Good luck with that.

They are equal in aggregate. If a player does 17 things that prevent 0.01 goals each, it has the same value as a player who does 1 thing to create 0.17 goals.

It is goal creation, not simply scoring - when McDavid stickhandles all over the Kings zone on the PP and fires one in off Hyman's skate, almost anyone could be standing out there "scoring" the goal. Standing there is a very small part of what led to its creation.