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Old 06-24-2017, 08:47 PM   #681
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Now that I've had a whole day to digest this trade I am so fired up! As far as I can tell we had 7 significant factors that conspired against us last year.

1) Monahan's early season struggle due to injury.
2) Gaudreau's contract dispute and subsequent slow start.
3) A disjointed, clumsy training camp. Mostly due to the WHC.
4) TJ Brodie's rough season. Moved to the left side, wife disagnosed with MS
5) Difficult adjustment to the Gulutzan system.
6) Awful goaltending for the first month.
7) The Wideman affect.

Now, we may not remedy every single one of these issues but we will damn sure remedy most of them. Add Travis Hamonic to the equation and the sky is the limit. I wish I could fast forward the summer.
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Old 06-24-2017, 08:51 PM   #682
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4) TJ Brodie's rough season. He was moved to the left side, wife disagnosed with MS.
Brodie's wife was diagnosed in 2015, but otherwise I agree that we should expect a better year for Brodie even without Hamonic.
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Old 06-24-2017, 08:55 PM   #683
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To add to the last 2 posts, I have a hard time seeing Smith struggle early on like Elliott did.
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Old 06-24-2017, 08:58 PM   #684
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Plus, if the league is truly going to crack down on slashing, we could see a special season out of Johnny.
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Old 06-24-2017, 09:22 PM   #685
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Reading the ATL, I think it's safe to assume Phil's negative tendencies will disappear since the split second he gets on the ice at camp coach is going to say," just give it to Brodie buds", you've done your part.
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Old 06-24-2017, 09:23 PM   #686
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I seriously think the Hamonic trade conversation sounds like this:

Tre: "Let's screw the Oilers here and be honest..."

Snow: "I just did (Eberle), I am down for round #2..."



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Old 06-24-2017, 09:27 PM   #687
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Maybe I missed it.... Has Hamonic commented at all since the trade??
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Old 06-24-2017, 09:28 PM   #688
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Originally Posted by Racki View Post
Now that I've had a whole day to digest this trade I am so fired up! As far as I can tell we had 7 significant factors that conspired against us last year.

1) Monahan's early season struggle due to injury.
2) Gaudreau's contract dispute and subsequent slow start.
3) A disjointed, clumsy training camp. Mostly due to the WHC.
4) TJ Brodie's rough season. Moved to the left side, wife disagnosed with MS
5) Difficult adjustment to the Gulutzan system.
6) Awful goaltending for the first month.
7) The Wideman affect.

Now, we may not remedy every single one of these issues but we will damn sure remedy most of them. Add Travis Hamonic to the equation and the sky is the limit. I wish I could fast forward the summer.
8) Grossmann effect
9) Elliott effect
10) Gulutzen's weird defensive pairings
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Old 06-24-2017, 09:30 PM   #689
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Maybe I missed it.... Has Hamonic commented at all since the trade??
Here he is with Pat Steinberg:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/the-big-...pat-steinberg/
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Old 06-24-2017, 09:40 PM   #690
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It is coming from an Oilers fan. Of course he is not talking about Boston.
Well, maybe, but it he was self aware and talking about Chia's career history

But yeah, Oilers' fan so was no doubt branding Klefbom a true number one D.
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Old 06-24-2017, 09:45 PM   #691
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I'm surprised how many people want to also add Stone. The biggest need now is offensive depth.
Nah, biggest need is a 5th dman. We're looking pretty good up front and could go into the season as is if we had to. Whereas the defense is still a bit thin on the 3rd pairing.
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Old 06-24-2017, 09:48 PM   #692
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I am so late to the party.

These were significant assets that the Flames gave up. Very significant, in my opinion. Assets like these are the golden currency of the NHL. However, I will also argue that Hamonic is a significant add.

The positives:
  • Good luck trying to gain an advantage on line-matching with the Flames. 3/4 of the game your team will be faced against a stellar defence.
  • Adds a physical element, which is great since that is in a bit of a short supply
  • Puck movement. Puck movement. PUCK MOVEMENT. Now the Flames have FOUR defencemen that can skate the puck out under pressure, or make a tape-to-tape awesome first pass. The transition game for the Flames just got easier, and the toughest part of defending in the NHL is the transition.
  • A relatively low cost top 4. Flames can actually afford to splurge a bit on the #5 guy because of this. Stone can be re-signed for 3+ million a season, and it won't throw everything out of whack.
The Negatives:
  • Only a negative nancy would be negative about this.
Sure, there are some risks. Let's be honest about that...


What if a Brodie - Hamonic pairing doesn't work? Well, Hamonic is being paid 3.8 million a season for the next 3 seasons. You can theoretically throw him down on the third pairing if you really have to, and the salary structure still won't be THAT terrible. I am willing to bring Stone back just because I think this. To me, this is the only possibility of a downside, but I think it is a rather remote one.



I do think that Brodie struggled early this season - maybe even as far as halfway through the season. Yes, I thought Wideman was even propping him up for a while, and Engelland as well when they were together. However, Brodie did start improving, and when Stone was brought in he looked very much like his old self, though on the opposite side of the ice. Bringing in Stone is a notch above that. It gives Brodie a legitimate high-end partner, and hopefully it allows for a bit more Brodie rushing like we saw under Hartley.


As for the draft picks - yes, they are significant. However, what holes organizationally do you really need to plug up? A 'glaring' hole on RW? I don't agree with that sentiment at all. Few teams work with 3 top players on a line together. Everyone is doing pairings. Pairings. Pairings. The third wheel on the line has to support the other two.


Gaudreau - Monahan - solid proven pairing
Backlund - Frolik - solid proven pairing


Now the Flames have to figure out the next pairing and who ends up as the complimentary piece on the wing out of:


Bennett, Janowski, Lazar and Tkachuk.



This SHOULD give the Flames 3 solid pairings. Where are the other complimentary players going to come from? Ferland is one (and I bet he hits 30 goals at some point in his career, but I digress). The rest are presently on the farm waiting for their chance, or will be acquired through FA or future trades that will further balance this team out. There isn't some MASSIVE hole on RW. The Flames enjoyed a very impressive PP (once they got out of their miserable start to the season anyways). Flames were just below average league-wide for scoring goals, but with a thousand and one reasons as to why they dipped this year. Forget the injuries, forget the new defensive system. The Flames have enough offensive talent on the team to compete with most teams already, now they shored-up their defence.



Don't like Smith much? Well, neither do I, but we are both fools for thinking he is some sieve. He is older, but he knows how to stop pucks, and he knows how to transition them up the ice as well (there's that word again - transition!). Flames are going to be suffocating to play against.



Get used to Gaskal's "Around the League" reports. I predict you will be reading them more often, and I am betting you will be reading this a lot in them from fans of different teams:


"Where was the urgency? We played like crap. We weren't ready. If only there was some effort."


Flames will just shut-down a lot of offence from other teams and transition back into the opposing zone quickly. With the addition of Stone last year (who was decent at it) and Barkowski (who made me cringe way too often), the Flames started moving that puck up the ice much more effectively. That long win streak was a compelling argument. Elliott played well, and I will argue he had some elite-level games that prolonged that win streak, but for the most part he was just a decent goalie. Flames just transitioned so well, and when hemmed into their own zone, managed the tough areas of the ice well.


I am not sure if Treliving will recoup those picks, but I don't think it is a must either.



Flames have their 'core' now. They also have a group of players that are maybe not considered core, but that Treliving is not trading. All the Flames need is for young, cheap complimentary pieces to find their way onto the team. I really believe that organizationally, they can do that for a number of years. Maybe nobody in the next few years will enter the team and be thought of as a 'core' piece, but they will come up and do their job. Their job is to compliment the existing players cheaply.


There is no glaring hole on RW. There is a hole for a third pairing on the team, but again, with Jankowksi, Bennett, Tkachuk and Lazar, I think the Flames will find something that works. Is RW really such a glaring hole? It is a small hole. The biggest deficiency is that it limits the PP somewhat without having that big RHS at Iginla's old position. That's it to me. If you need it that badly, just bring back Iginla for the 4th line and PP.


I hope the Flames sign Stone. He provides overkill, but the Flames will still need to sign a vet to play on the 3rd pairing. You can't expect Andersson, Kylington, Kulak or Wotherspoon to fill out both spots and not expect missed assignments. I think it is helpful if they have a vet out there who shout instructions to them as needed. I think that guy should be Stone, as he can really step up in case of an injury as well to the top 4.


An injury means you now have to play 3 out of those 4 defencemen with a total of 62 games between them. 32 if Treliving doens't re-sign Wotherspoon (as I am half-expecting him not to). I don't think Treliving is going to build an elite top 4 that turns into mush when there is a single injury. May not be Stone, but it will be someone.


Great draft overall. Valimaki is going to be a player sooner than later. Flames have done really well this weekend.
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Old 06-24-2017, 10:00 PM   #693
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Lots of time to recoup picks.
How do teams in 'win now' mode recoup 1st and 2nd round picks?

Honest question.
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Old 06-24-2017, 10:04 PM   #694
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How do teams in 'win now' mode recoup 1st and 2nd round picks?

Honest question.
The obvious answer is failure. Out of it at the deadline, move tradeable assets.

That being said a sucessful playoff bound team can still part ways with expiring assets. The Flames have done this as recently as when they moved Glencross.
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Old 06-24-2017, 10:05 PM   #695
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If Brodie-Hamonic doesn't work I wonder if they'd ever try

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Old 06-24-2017, 10:06 PM   #696
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I love this acquisition, even if at a high price.
Perhaps one of the best reasons for it is that it's a great counter-balance to the Oilers who are mounting a hugely offensive team as we mount a better and better defensive one. It's going to be awesome to stifle that team, especially given the past sweep year we gave them. No more!
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Old 06-24-2017, 10:06 PM   #697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racki View Post
Now that I've had a whole day to digest this trade I am so fired up! As far as I can tell we had 7 significant factors that conspired against us last year.

1) Monahan's early season struggle due to injury.
2) Gaudreau's contract dispute and subsequent slow start.
3) A disjointed, clumsy training camp. Mostly due to the WHC.
4) TJ Brodie's rough season. Moved to the left side, wife disagnosed with MS
5) Difficult adjustment to the Gulutzan system.
6) Awful goaltending for the first month.
7) The Wideman affect.

Now, we may not remedy every single one of these issues but we will damn sure remedy most of them. Add Travis Hamonic to the equation and the sky is the limit. I wish I could fast forward the summer.
HMs:
-Ignorance of slashing on Gaudreau, Flames (leading to JG injury)
-Playing Brodie on the wrong side
-Backfiring of the strange D pairing strategy and Grossman, McDavid effect spotting the Oilers 4 points out of the gate
-Every goal review all season going against the Flames
-Various phantom calls on Tkachuk just because he is a scumbag kid
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Old 06-24-2017, 10:07 PM   #698
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Every time I get down on the Flames because of KK's buffoonery, Burke's mouth or for the way they're handling the arena fiasco.. Treliving the wizard comes along and totally restores my faith in what really matters most, the on-ice part.
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Old 06-24-2017, 10:07 PM   #699
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Originally Posted by カナダ人です View Post
How do teams in 'win now' mode recoup 1st and 2nd round picks?

Honest question.
you don't. edit - i suppose there is a small chance of getting back a 2nd somewhere down the line... but the first one is tough unless a few goalies or D really develop for us...

but you have assets to show for it... I mean in all honesty, the price was steep - BT said so himself.

But at the same time, you get a guy that's 26-27 years old and can step in and play big minutes now.

Its certainly possible that the 1st and 2 2nd round picks turn into a player or players that are more valuable than Hamonic... but its also possible none turn out to be better players either...

really excited to see how it all pans out next year.
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Old 06-24-2017, 10:12 PM   #700
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you don't. edit - i suppose there is a small chance of getting back a 2nd somewhere down the line... but the first one is tough unless a few goalies or D really develop for us...

but you have assets to show for it... I mean in all honesty, the price was steep - BT said so himself.

But at the same time, you get a guy that's 26-27 years old and can step in and play big minutes now.

Its certainly possible that the 1st and 2 2nd round picks turn into a player or players that are more valuable than Hamonic... but its also possible none turn out to be better players either...

really excited to see how it all pans out next year.
That's my point. I have no issue with this trade; the price was steep but Hamonic is a quality player. My issue is people thinking the picks it cost to get the player "can easily be recouped". If the team was re-building like the Leafs did in the 2016 draft I could see it, but for a team entering 'win now' mode like the Flames I think you just have to acknowledge you got a quality player that helps you win now, but at significant cost. Not something "we can just recoup later".
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