[Trade] Flames acquire Mike Smith (25% retained) for Chad Johnson, Brandon Hickey, & cond 3rd

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Toonage

What else were we lied to about? Is Mike Smith his real name? Sounds made up.

Hes not even from Arizona is he!?! Lies!!!

He may or may not even be a Lizard-Man!

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Toonage

What else were we lied to about? Is Mike Smith his real name? Sounds made up.

It's really Keenan.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I was only pointing to the fact that teams can actually succeed with a rotation of starting goalies, and I don't think acquisition cost is relevant to that point. I realize that you are fixated on draft picks that are spent every year, but there comes a point where the value of the asset outweighs the <20% chance to draft a NHL player. I would argue that the accumulation of picks is not as important at this stage of their cycle as it was three years ago.

When you are at a geographical disadvantage in attracting free agents picks will always be significant. At this stage, with this much evidence, I don't see how you can argue otherwise.

Picks have serious value and serious flexibility attached to them (hence the value). So far this year the Flames have traded away 2 third round picks, a second rounder and as yet to be determined 5th rounder.

If the flames end up making the playoffs next year that will be 3 consecutive years the team has moved a second round draft pick. In the last two years the flames have spent a second, a third and a 5th rounder on goaltending. This is potentially a larger package of picks than either San Jose or Edmonton gave up their starters, and it looks like all Calgary will have to show for their 2nd rounder was a 4 game sweep in the playoffs.

You just can't throw that amount of picks at a problem without it hurting you. As a contender, you need those picks in the next few years to round out your cap-strapped roster with cheap rookie salaries. Backlund might double his salary, you hope Bennett has justified a top salary and Tkachuk looks like he's on pace to be a 6 million dollar player when his deal is up as well. At that point you'd better hope there are some guys in the system who could conceivably step into the lineup without costing an arm and a leg.

The kings have drafted 33 times in the last 4 drafts. The hawks 41. The Flames 35 selections over the same span. The Flames have made 7 second round selections in that span, the hawks 6 and the kings 5. That is just not good enough to outcompete the competitive advantage those franchises enjoy when those other teams are also deficit spending chasing a cup. The flames are deficit spending to field a competitive roster.

If the flames don't start hitting some home runs with picks outside the first round, they may never actually reach contender status.

It's no coincidence that the best prospects in the organization right now were all drafted in the second round, or that the organization hit rock bottom after not drafting in the second round for essentially the entirety they were a contending team during the Iginla era.

I'm not suggesting you can't trade picks, but they matter more to a team like Calgary than they do a team like the hawks, so the Flames have to be craftier with them. If you're going to move 2x2nd round picks in a calendar year, do it at one time to get the right player instead of spreading that pain over 2 trades.

The flames were in a cap crunch which is what made Elliott so attractive last year at 2.5, but then if that is the case, be patient, stay the course and stomach missing the playoffs and keeping your 2nd round pick while adding another one by moving assets at the deadline.

I like treliving a lot, but the Flames at this point basically can't afford to move any more picks out without getting a bunch, or significant, picks in return.

[Stuntman Mike]

I don't understand why some view this as a bad trade? We have a legit #1, on a reasonable contract, with reasonable term, who wants to be here and has something to prove. In exchange for 2 unsigned assets who may never lace up for 1 NHL game. 2nd round picks have a 44% chance of playing in the NHL. If either one of them does make it, when will that be?

I'm OK with this trade, I'm not running out to buy a Smith jersey or anything, but I think it makes sense. Who else actually wanted to come here and at what cost?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

At this point the best play would have been to go all in on a guy like Schnieder or Raanta imho. Guys that have started a number of games and need a change of scenery or legitimate chance to shine. You keep giving up mid range assets to land marginal "hopeful" starter solutions and it adds up to a much larger investment and worst of all, lost opportunities.

If even one of Rittich, Parsons or Gillies evolves into solid 1B material I would consider it a huge win for the organization at this point. I'm not so sure the organization has the time or patience to see this through considering the team's current window is now open.

Schneider was a fantasy. The Devils have shown no inclination to move him and there's never been any talk of him being available or teams even making offers. Going all in on Raanta could very easily turn into worse than Mike Smith play for a small fortune. People were going to be disappointed no matter what as there were no guys like Schneider available to the Flames.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Schneider was a fantasy. The Devils have shown no inclination to move him and there's never been any talk of him being available or teams even making offers. Going all in on Raanta could very easily turn into worse than Mike Smith play for a small fortune. People were going to be disappointed no matter what as there were no guys like Schneider available to the Flames.

Eric Duhatschek was on the FAN yesterday and said that the Flames actually made inquiries about Schneider in their search for a goalie.

[devo22]

So the Flames shared a Leslie interview with Sigalet on their Facebook page today, talking about the goalies in the system ... so I guess there's a very good chance that Sigalet will be back as the goalie coach this upcoming season. Can't say I'm ecstatic about that

[united]

Craig Custance mentioned the Red Wings were shopping Petr Mrazek, due to having to expose him in the expansion draft, and the Flames showed interest before ultimately deciding to go with Mike Smith to win now.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Eric Duhatschek was on the FAN yesterday and said that the Flames actually made inquiries about Schneider in their search for a goalie.

And that the asking price could have likely been Sam+

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

And that the asking price could have likely been Sam+

Yeah, I was thinking it was at least Bennett.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Picks have serious value and serious flexibility attached to them (hence the value). So far this year the Flames have traded away 2 third round picks, a second rounder and as yet to be determined 5th rounder.

I like treliving a lot, but the Flames at this point basically can't afford to move any more picks out without getting a bunch, or significant, picks in return.

Since 2015 we've made the following picks or added the following players with those picks (15-60):

Dougie Hamilton
Oliver Kylington
Rasmus Andersson
Dillon Dube
Tyler Parsons
Curtis Lazar
2017 first

That's seven U23 players added between 15 and 60 (assuming Tre doesn't trade 2017 first away). Most would agree the four prospects are legitimate threats to be impact NHLers.

We're not exactly bleeding picks. If you go into three drafts with six U23 players returned you're well on par.

The monumentally greater issue is wasting cap space on 4th line/3rd pair players (Brouwer, Engelland, Raymond, Bollig, Bouma). By far. If Smith is a starter, the acquisition cost is fine. If he plays no better than a backup is where it is an issue.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Schneider was a fantasy. The Devils have shown no inclination to move him and there's never been any talk of him being available or teams even making offers. Going all in on Raanta could very easily turn into worse than Mike Smith play for a small fortune. People were going to be disappointed no matter what as there were no guys like Schneider available to the Flames.

You can't say that with any certainty whatsoever. It was certainly speculated that Schneider was available for the right price and even members of our local media presumed as much. Raanta was definitely available as he is now on the Vegas unprotected list. I'd rather give up a 2nd, 3rd and 7th (as the Oilers did) and get "the guy" for the foreseeable future than see the team constantly moving out 2nd round picks and decent prospects for short term stop gaps. Sure Raanta could fizzle out but the chances of him being much worse that Smith or Elliot is pretty minute.

Bottom line is the Flames have already moved Hickey, a third round pick and a second round pick (Elliot) and have 35 year old Mike Smith to show for it. Put all of these assets on the table at once and i'm sure you're in the ballpark for a much better, younger option in net for the foreseeable future.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Eric Duhatschek was on the FAN yesterday and said that the Flames actually made inquiries about Schneider in their search for a goalie.

Ha ha I'm sure Treliving made inquiries to Montreal as well to see what the cost would be to get Price. The guy is supposedly always on the phone talking to other GM's. I don't recall any credible sources that stated Schneider was available though. I know the 960 guys talked about Schneider but again that was no different than fans here that assume because the Devils aren't very good they would trade their franchise goaltender to the Flames so they could assume the Flames predicament of continually plugging the starter role with stop gaps and go years with mediocre to poor goaltending.

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

You can't say that with any certainty whatsoever. It was widely speculated that Schneider was available for the right price and even members of our local media presumed as much. Raanta was certainly available as he is now on the Vegas unprotected list. I'd rather give up a 2nd, 3rd and 7th (as the Oilers did) and get "the guy" for the foreseeable future than see the team constantly moving out 2nd round picks a decent prospects for short term stop gaps.

Bottom line is the Flames have already moved Hickey, a third round pick and a second round pick (Elliot) and have 35 year old Mike Smith to show for it. Put all of these assets on the table at once and i'm sure you're in the ballpark for a much better, younger option in net for the foreseeable future.

Widely speculated? By who? I've not read this anywhere. If you have a link go ahead and prove it.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

On the radio they were suggesting it would probably take Bennett or more or an asset like that to get Schneider. You do that deal EE? I don't think a lot of us would

[CliffFletcher]

Treliving made inquiries about Schneider. That does not mean the Devils made him available, or are looking to move him. I suspect the conversation went something like this:

Treliving: Are you interested in moving Schneider?

Shero: We like Schneider. He's the best player on the team. So we're not looking to move him.

Treliving: What would it take?

Shero: How about Bennett and Gillies.

Treliving: Sorry nope.

Shero: Bye.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

On the radio they were suggesting it would probably take Bennett or more or an asset like that to get Schneider. You do that deal EE? I don't think a lot of us would

The problem with that deal is that he's under contract until 2022 and Gillies and/or Parsons should be NHL ready before then. Now I couldn't predict if either will be as good as Scheider or even an NHL number one goaltender but I feel the Flames owe it to themselves to see these guys through and the same goes for Bennett. You have to be honest with where you are with the rebuild and as I said before I liked MAF and Smith because they are only tied to them for two years.

[dino7c]

All these guys everyone loves would have got lit up playing for the Yotes


Stacked teams always have the best backups

Schneider obviously wasn't available at a price that made sense

[GioforPM]

I saw stories where it was said the Devils should move Schneider (because of their team development. I didn't see any that said they were trying to do so.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Treliving: What would it take?

Shero: How about Bennett and Gillies.

What about one or the other?

[TheOnlyBilko]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Also worth noting. Yesterday during an interview with Tim & Sid, Mike Smith admitted he cannot dunk a basketball.

Think we were sold a bill of goods here.

"He might be the best athlete I’ve ever been around and it shows in his game," said Treliving.

Please Brad sell us some more.

"He takes batting practise with major league team and can hit the ball out of the park"

Not all that hard.