[News] Kings terminate Richards contract. UPD: Kings and Richards reach settlement

[14]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Is the issue then that they were not prescribed by doctors?

At any rate, if he has a drug problem then the Kings should at least offer him help.

This is making more sense now, although not fully clear. When you are in the NHL/NHLPA substance abuse program it is totally confidential. If he was in it, there would be restrictions set for him including posession of said drugs. He may have been in that program for awhile and the Kings were supporting him through it hence no buy out.

The reason so many news outlets would not release the details was assumed that they did not want to lose accredidation with the NHL in releasing information that could be seen as confidential and linked to privacy laws. Especially before charges were filed. If filed that would be public record. Looks like RCMP investigation is around the legitimacy of the prescription.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

It's addictive to people that already have addiction problems. Drug stores are being robbed because it's easier to try and rob a drug store than to try and rob a drug dealer for meth or coke or whatever. But saying it's highly addictive makes it sound like the average person who needs pain control should use extreme caution before using it or they'll get addicted. For 99% of the population it's not a problem.

This is just so wrong it's unbelievable. And your previous comparison about it not being heroin.. it's a synthetic opiate. So it's exactly like heroin.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by kermitology

This is just so wrong it's unbelievable. And your previous comparison about it not being heroin.. it's a synthetic opiate. So it's exactly like heroin.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/trevorbu...in-abuse-over/

One of the most powerful themes in the saga of OxyContin is the purported ease by which someone could begin taking the pill to deal with severe pain and then suddenly find they are addicted. The New York Times, for instance, pursued the theme of a negligent marketing and prescribing across multiple stories in the early 2000s emphasizing this problem of “iatrogenic” – i.e., accidental – addiction. There was one problem with that argument at the time, the first being a conspicuous lack of hard data to back it up. A study in the Journal of Analytical Toxicology in 2003 that examined drug overdose deaths for the presence of oxycodone, found that in 96.7 percent of cases, the deceased had multiple other drugs in their system too.

As a 2003 position paper by the College on Problems of Drug Dependence, which included representatives from, the University of Chicago, Johns Hopkins University, and Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, and the Drug Enforcement Administration, noted, “the overall consensus in the pain management community is that the majority of chronic pain patients on long-term opioid therapy are not abusing these drugs.”

“There is no persuasive evidence that individuals with no previous history of substance abuse are at risk for becoming addicted when exposed to prescription opioids,” says Dr. Martin Cheatle, Director of the Pain and Chemical Dependency Program at the University of Pennsylvania’s Center for Studies of Addiction. He points to a 2008 evidence-based review (Fishbain et al.) of chronic pain patients exposed to chronic opioid analgesic therapy found very low reported abuse and addiction rate – 3.27 percent, which is far below the accepted prevalence of addictions in the general population (10 percent). And this fell to .19 percent when you excluded patients who had a previous history of drug use or addiction or were currently abusing illegal drugs. Additionally, a systematic review of the literature on whether chronic pain patients were likely to abuse opioids (Turk et al.) found that the strongest predictors were a personal history of illicit drug and alcohol abuse.

[madmike]

It's addictive enough that it kills people even when they know the consequences.

My brother got hooked, realized he had a problem, went cold turkey and kicked it for a while. He got re-hooked, went into rehab and kicked it again. Even knowing that it would kill him, he went back, used again and died. That's how addictive it can be.

[ComixZone]

You know how this will end? The contract will remain terminated, but Richards will receive every single $ owed.

Kings get out of cap hell, Richards get his money.

[cracher]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

It's addictive to people that already have addiction problems. Drug stores are being robbed because it's easier to try and rob a drug store than to try and rob a drug dealer for meth or coke or whatever. But saying it's highly addictive makes it sound like the average person who needs pain control should use extreme caution before using it or they'll get addicted. For 99% of the population it's not a problem.

No, there are a few people posting above who have it right. Oxy has a massively high bioavailability when taken PO. If you crack the oxycontin (bypass the time-release mechanism) and snort, it's heroin-level. This is especially true if you take it with some CYP3A4 inhibitor.

[burn_this_city]

If that's it, I can't see it being enough to terminate his contract. If that's the enough there's likely a significant number of players that are in violation.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by cracher

No, there are a few people posting above who have it right. Oxy has a massively high bioavailability when taken PO. If you crack the oxycontin (bypass the time-release mechanism) and snort, it's heroin-level. This is especially true if you take it with some CYP3A4 inhibitor.

Yes, exactly for ADDICTS. However saying it's highly addictive purports that the average person should use EXTREME caution when using oxy for pain relief, when it is quite safe for 99% of the people who get prescribed it. Everyone is using personal experiences but have no fact based evidence other than "I heard it was addictive". My personal experience: my father has substance abuse problems and there's a high familial correlation for addiction. I take oxy at least once a month and have never felt the need to take extra.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Yes, exactly for ADDICTS. However saying it's highly addictive purports that the average person should use EXTREME caution when using oxy for pain relief, when it is quite safe for 99% of the people who get prescribed it. Everyone is using personal experiences but have no fact based evidence other than "I heard it was addictive". My personal experience: my father has substance abuse problems and there's a high familial correlation for addiction. I take oxy at least once a month and have never felt the need to take extra.

Not to go too off topic, but you may not feel the need to take extra, but do you know how your body would react if it you were no longer prescribed to take it? Because that's part of the addiction as well.

[dammage79]

For a professional athlete taking it on the regular. I can assume that like a lot of drugs, the body needs more and more to get the same results over time. I think it's a real problem to fight compared to taking a pill every couple of months for a migrane.

I'm also under the impression that pharmacies don't actually have the drug in store and perscription volumes are brought in from elsewhere when they need to be filled. That says enough for me about how addictive it is.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by madmike

It's addictive enough that it kills people even when they know the consequences.

My brother got hooked, realized he had a problem, went cold turkey and kicked it for a while. He got re-hooked, went into rehab and kicked it again. Even knowing that it would kill him, he went back, used again and died. That's how addictive it can be.

Sorry to hear this and thank you for sharing. I find it mind blowing when people show no sympathy to people hooked on these things and refuse to realize how powerless people can feel and how truly addictive things like this can be.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by dammage79

For a professional athlete taking it on the regular. I can assume that like a lot of drugs, the body needs more and more to get the same results over time. I think it's a real problem to fight compared to taking a pill every couple of months for a migrane.



I'm also under the impression that pharmacies don't actually have the drug in store and perscription volumes are brought in from elsewhere when they need to be filled. That says enough for me about how addictive it is.

My last post on this because it's getting waaaaaaay off tangent, but using Boogaard as an example is sensationalism. How many NHL players need offseason surgery and are likely prescribed opioids post surgery? And how many of them are getting a substance abuse problem from those opioids alone? Almost none. Just like the general public. Opioids are routinely prescribed post hip/knee replacements, a myriad of spinal surgeries, and so on. If it was highly addictive to the average person, it wouldn't be prescribed. It's a problem for addicts as almost all drugs are a problem for addicts.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

My last post on this because it's getting waaaaaaay off tangent, but using Boogaard as an example is sensationalism. How many NHL players need offseason surgery and are likely prescribed opioids post surgery? And how many of them are getting a substance abuse problem from those opioids alone? Almost none. Just like the general public. Opioids are routinely prescribed post hip/knee replacements, a myriad of spinal surgeries, and so on. If it was highly addictive to the average person, it wouldn't be prescribed. It's a problem for addicts as almost all drugs are a problem for addicts.

Who said anything about Boogard? I didn't. I'm talking about Mike Freaking Richards man.

It really sounds like you're defending your usage of it. Which is so utterly meaningless when we're talking about a pro athlete taking it on a sheer higher volume than you ever will.

Oxycotone abuse is a real issue in the real world whether you think it is or not. Thats a fact. you're right though, your tanget is getting way off course.

Also, the lack of empathy by you about another poster knowing full well the dangers of the drug because their family member died because of it is brutal man.

[nik-]

I would put Oxy on the level of heroin in terms of addiction. Heroin is what a lot of Oxy users move to when they can just no longer afford Oxy.

Just because someone can have an anecdote about how they use it rarely and aren't addicted doesn't mean it isn't and is quite frankly a ridiculous stance. It's a powerful opioid.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

My last post on this because it's getting waaaaaaay off tangent, but using Boogaard as an example is sensationalism. How many NHL players need offseason surgery and are likely prescribed opioids post surgery? And how many of them are getting a substance abuse problem from those opioids alone? Almost none. Just like the general public. Opioids are routinely prescribed post hip/knee replacements, a myriad of spinal surgeries, and so on. If it was highly addictive to the average person, it wouldn't be prescribed. It's a problem for addicts as almost all drugs are a problem for addicts.

What's an addict? Aren't all addicts regular people until they become addicts? Plenty of cases of normal every day people who never had a history with drugs but became addicted to prescription pills.

[cracher]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

My last post on this because it's getting waaaaaaay off tangent, but using Boogaard as an example is sensationalism. How many NHL players need offseason surgery and are likely prescribed opioids post surgery? And how many of them are getting a substance abuse problem from those opioids alone? Almost none. Just like the general public. Opioids are routinely prescribed post hip/knee replacements, a myriad of spinal surgeries, and so on. If it was highly addictive to the average person, it wouldn't be prescribed. It's a problem for addicts as almost all drugs are a problem for addicts.

So how do addicts become addicts? Surely not all cases are inherited.

It's not quite as simple as you make it. There is a reason why the US has it in schedule 2 as opposed to 3/4. I can tell you from my personal experience of prescribing opioid meds regularly for the last 12 years, oxys scare me more than any other pill I write because I have had a couple of "normal people, non-addicts" run into some trouble with it.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Who said anything about Boogard? I didn't. I'm talking about Mike Freaking Richards man.



It really sounds like you're defending your usage of it. Which is so utterly meaningless when we're talking about a pro athlete taking it on a sheer higher volume than you ever will.



Oxycotone abuse is a real issue in the real world whether you think it is or not. Thats a fact. you're right though, your tanget is getting way off course.



Also, the lack of empathy by you about another poster knowing full well the dangers of the drug because their family member died because of it is brutal man.

Where did I show a lack of empathy? I am defending the usage of it, I deal with patients with pain control on a daily basis and oxy helps a lot. It's a shame some people get addicted to it. It is. But it is a good pain control solution and I'm merely trying to point out it isn't as dangerous to the average person as the media makes it seem. Also, I am the only one to have peer-reviewed anecdotal research of its actual safety whereas everyone else is "I heard it's dangerous". Just because you say abuse is a issue in the real world, doesn't make it fact. Whatever I'm not going to check this thread again. Say your final price, later.

[Dion]

Al Morganti and Eric Duhatschek discussed the Richards situation with Rob Kerr on the Fan and both stated they feel the NHLPA will win this.Should this pandoras box be allowed it will create situations where other teams will try to terminate contracts of players they might otherwise buyout.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/the-big-...stove-june-30/

[frodo_t_baggins]

nm

[Erick Estrada]

The Kings can be as greasy as they want to try and get out of paying Richards but IMO this should have no bearing on his salary cap penalty to the organization as they have chosen to sever ties only because they have used him up for his good hockey but they knew of the salary cap ramifications when they traded for him and accepted the penalty that came with it. His dependence on potent pain killers should not change that as it opens up a can of worms in a league where players often play injured and are expected to take a physical beating over the course of their careers. This would never fly in the NFL and I don't see how it would fly in the NHL.

I usually support the NHL teams in CBA bargaining but IMO what the Kings are doing here is highly distasteful and I don't believe teams should be able to get away with using up players and spitting them out when they feel they are no longer useful.