Head to Head Comparison: Iginla vs. Sakic

[Ashasx]

Top 30 Wingers MAYBE???

LOL

You talk about overvaluing players, but you do the exact opposite. Iginla is easily in the top 30 wingers of all time and is certainly pushing top 10.

[trackercowe]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Bossy was not even considered the best hockey player on his line. He would have been the 3rd most important player on his team behind Trottier and Potvin.

lol. How can anyone call the best pure goal scorer of all time the 3rd most important player on their team? Surprised you didn't rank him behind Smith, Gillies, Goring, Nystrom, and Sutter as well.

Hey look we all love Iginla, but he isn't even in the same realm as a Mike Bossy. Top 30 wingers of all time sounds about right, maybe top 20, but there are clearly many better wingers all-time than Iginla.

Bleacher Report isn't the best place to use, but they had Iginla ranked 53rd all time as of 2010 http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4...l-time/page/52

Surely you can find many better wingers ahead of him on their list.

Do you know how many times Bossy had less than 50 goals in his career? One time, in his last year before he retired. 9 out of 10 seasons he scored more than 50 goals, and 5 times he scored more than 60. Insane numbers in such a short career.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by $ven27

Hahaha. For sure better then Jagr? Kurri? Richard?! Not even going to go there with your comparable list because Iggy isn't as good as any of those guys except maybe Shanahan. Iggy is a top 30-40 winger, not top ten.

The for sure better are players who were for sure better than Iggy. I think you are overvaluing numbers put up in the free wheeling era.

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Top 30 Wingers MAYBE???

LOL

You talk about overvaluing players, but you do the exact opposite. Iginla is easily in the top 30 wingers of all time and is certainly pushing top 10.

No, I just don't have homer glasses on as hard as some people. 30 might have been a stretch, but not near the stretch of saying he's a top 10 winger. More likely around the 20-25 mark, give or take a few spots.

Originally Posted by GGG

The for sure better are players who were for sure better than Iggy. I think you are overvaluing numbers put up in the free wheeling era.

Ah, my mistake. No, I just fail to see how Iginla is in the same category as guys like Hull, Selanne, Bossy, and LaFleur (Maybe Robitaille too). Iggy's great, and should be proud to have had him for as long as we did, however he's closer to a Mats Sundin type then a Mike Bossy type, still a Hall of famer either way.

[trackercowe]

Will Iginla even be the best winger from the Young Gun era by the end of his career? Martin St. Louis could be considered the better player by the time they both retire.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

Will Iginla even be the best winger from the Young Gun era by the end of his career? Martin St. Louis could be considered the better player by the time they both retire.

IMO St. Louis has possibly had the better overall career especially considering he's shown no signs of slowing down with age but it's a tough comparison because his career started later and Iginla has played a fair bit more games. He has Hart and Stanley Cup Trophies to which Iginla has been runner up on both. Hard to imagine the Flames gave him up for a bag of pucks.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

lol. How can anyone call the best pure goal scorer of all time the 3rd most important player on their team? Surprised you didn't rank him behind Smith, Gillies, Goring, Nystrom, and Sutter as well.

Hey look we all love Iginla, but he isn't even in the same realm as a Mike Bossy. Top 30 wingers of all time sounds about right, maybe top 20, but there are clearly many better wingers all-time than Iginla.

Bleacher Report isn't the best place to use, but they had Iginla ranked 53rd all time as of 2010 http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4...l-time/page/52

Surely you can find many better wingers ahead of him on their list.

Do you know how many times Bossy had less than 50 goals in his career? One time, in his last year before he retired. 9 out of 10 seasons he scored more than 50 goals, and 5 times he scored more than 60. Insane numbers in such a short career.

Trottier wins Hart... Potvin 3 Norris... really not even close as to who you would pick first and second to build a team from.

[trackercowe]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Trottier wins Hart... Potvin 3 Norris... really not even close as to who you would pick first and second to build a team from.

Bossy had his better seasons during the Gretzky era, no one else was going to win the Hart during those years. Trottier won his the year prior to Gretzky's rookie year (Bossy's sophomore season).

[GoIggy]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Kurri and Jagr were side kicks.... they never-ever carried a team or were the face of a team.

Ummmm, what???

The last I checked Mario didn't play in 97-98, 98-99,99-00

Jagr

97-98 102 pts, 35 g
98-99 127 pts, 44 g
99-00 96 pts, 42 g

Mario missed a lot of 2000-01, in which case Jagr was tearing up
Finished with:
121 pts, 52 g

2005-06 Rags 123 pts, 54 g

Hart Trophy, 5 time Art Ross, 3 time Player's MVP,

So basically in the 4 years he was completely alone (not counting Washington) he racked up 3 player's MVPs and a hart...

He WAS the Penguins when I was growing up

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

Was Mike Bossy ever considered the best in the game?

There was a brief window (albeit very, very brief) where many people considered Iginla to be the best hockey player in the world...that goes a LONG way when considering lists like this, IMO.

I have no issue with Iginla being mentioned along side Bossy, Selanne, Hull and the like...I'm not saying he's necessarily ABOVE them on the list, but he's right there if we're comparing everyone on their prime.

There is about 18-24 months where some people would consider Iginla the best player in hockey. He was never the clear cut best player, and there was always a caveat to the discussion. Sure, he led the league in points in '01-02, but does that make him the best player in the league? Jagr scored 79 points in 69 games that season. Yeah, he had that monster playoffs in 2004, but even that season, he was being overshadowed by players like Kovalchuk, St. Louis (who would eventually prove to be a better playoff performer...), Hossa, Sakic and so on.

He's not in the same league as any of Bossy, Selanne or Hull. Not even close, quite frankly. Don't believe me? Look at the numbers. Dispute that even further? Watch the games. He is likely the best goal scorer of the weakest generation of goal scorers in NHL history. A comparison between Iginla and those players is a recipe for disappointment, fanboy jockeying and a de-evolution of "best of all time" conversations.

Daniel Alfredsson has a better points per game average than Jarome Iginla. Jarome's got better goal scoring numbers but it's more than arguable about who was the better player during their time in the league. Alfredsson captained his team just as far and just as long and had roughly equivalent linemates during his career, potentially worse all years considered.

Joe Sakic is worth two Jarome Iginlas. Sentimentality is the only reason anyone would argue otherwise.

[jayswin]

I was waiting for Flash Walken to come into this thread and make a post like that. Now I am leaving satisfied. I don't think any Flames fan has ever hated Iginla as much as this guy, it's hilarious.

[Flash Walken]

Is Jarome Iginla better than Joe Nieuwendyk?

I don't think so.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Is Jarome Iginla better than Joe Nieuwendyk?

I don't think so.

Much better

[moon]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Daniel Alfredsson has a better points per game average than Jarome Iginla. Jarome's got better goal scoring numbers but it's more than arguable about who was the better player during their time in the league. Alfredsson captained his team just as far and just as long and had roughly equivalent linemates during his career, potentially worse all years considered.

Which Flames players are close to Soezza, Hossa or Heatley that Iginla played with? Even Havlat and Michalak are better or at worst equal to the best teammates Iginla had.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Is Jarome Iginla better than Joe Nieuwendyk?

I don't think so.

Ignore the fact that Nieuwnedyk played on lines with hall of famers and the only hall of fame quality player Iggy played with in his prime was a goalie.

[powderjunkie]

I always find these discussions interesting. Seems to me they fork at comparing a players entire body of work vs. players who were absolutely amazing for brief periods.

I also think its impossible to compare too far back into the past...it was a totally different game, and a lot of the mystique around some of the players may have grown from mythology over the years. I don't claim to know enough about any of the real old timers, so take any of their rankings with a grain of salt and argue where they belong (I won't even bother with the babe dyes of the world)

Tier 1 - Full Career

Bossy
Howe
Hull
Hull
Jagr
Richard


Tier 2 - Full Career

Bucyk
Kurri
Lafleur (on the bubble for 1?)
Selanne
Shanahan (on the bubble to go down for me)


Tier 2 - short span

Bure
Neely


Tier 3 - Full

Andreychuk
Gartner
Hossa?
Iginla?
Kovalchuk?
Ovechkin?
Recchi
St. Louis?

A bunch of other older guys I can't claim to know enough about (could easily bump up or down): Mahovlich, Lindsay, etc.

I wouldn't necessarily rank any of the active ? guys in this tier yet, but all have the potential/trajectory to do it. IMO Iggy, Kovy and Ovy need a cup or more hart/art Ross to fully deserve


Tier 3 - Short

Bertuzzi?
Kariya
Tim Kerr
Mogilny
Gary Roberts pre injury
Simmer?
K. Stevens

Each of these guys could probably be tier 2 at their very best...


Tier 4 - full

Alfredsson
Anderson
Bondra
Ciccarelli
Elias
Fleury
Leclair
Lanny McDonald
Mullen
Taylor
Tocchet
Verbeek
Zetterberg?

A bunch of other older guys I can't claim to know enough about (could easily bump up or down): Barber, Gainey, Goulet, Shutt, etc.


Tier 4 - Short

Heatley
Probably some others...

Tier 5 - Full

Amonte
Clark (Wendell)
Gaborik
Guerin
Hejduk
Larmer?
C Lemieux
Kovalev (maybe higher in short span...too many ghost times to be complete enough to be any higher for me)
Maclean
Marleau?
Morrow
Nolan
Gary Roberts (whole career...)
Rolston
Satan
Smyth?
Whitney

A bunch of other older guys I can't claim to know enough about: Bellows, Propp, etc.



Of course this list is far from comprehensive, but it illustrates comparables for me. There are also a bunch of centre/wingers out there (Elias, Demitra, Palffy, tkachuk, etc,)...I included Elias because I think he, Alfredsson, St Louis and Iginla are similar in terms of being iconic players for one team for a long time).

Very interested to hear where other players should be slotted in our how you would adjust this.

[puckluck2]

For me, as a huge Iginla fan, I would still choose Joe Sakic ten times out of ten.

But it is funny reading the posts by the Iginla haters who are just salivating at the chance to bash Iginla one more time.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Iggy strung together a lot of consecutive 30 goal seasons, while also being far and away the best skater on the team, and top threat targeted by opposing coaches.

Look at that consistency, with all fairness, and the list really starts to drop off. The guy did it no matter who he had on his team and some years that was not impressive. Far from it.

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Is Jarome Iginla better than Joe Nieuwendyk?

I don't think so.

Wow... I can't imagine there are many people, Flames fans or no, that will agree with you on this one.

[カナダ人です]

Iginla is/was a great great player, but to compare him to Sakic, or - *shudder* - Bossy, is going a bit overboard.

And frankly I find the "player X had better team-mates" reasoning a tad disrespectful.

Just my 2cents. Like I said, Iginla is a great player and a sure fire hall-of-famer!