2017 NFL Playoffs the road to Super Bowl LI

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by cross16

What has Sean Payton done with Drew Brees?
What did Tony Dungy do with Payton Manning?
What did Don Shula do with Dan Marino?

Sure, McCarthy could have been more aggressive in the 2014 NFC Championship game but did he tell Morgan Burnett to stop after an INT when he could have probably ran it back for 6 or at least a FG try. Did he tell a 3rd string TE to not do his job and let Nelson catch the ball. either of those two things happen and they are in the super bowl and neither was McCarthy's fault.

Lots more than just a coach goes into winning a Championship. Keep in mind too that the Packers continue to hand McCarthy one of the youngest teams in the league year after year and almost never support it with veteran FAs.

He is far from a perfect coach but I think you are really underrating. Especially considering you are giving him no credit for actually developing Rodgers in the first place.

Drew Brees only became Drew Brees with the help of Sean Payton. San Diego remember let him go, so it wasn't like he was elite and just ended up in New Orleans. He became elite after Sean Payton. I think Dungy is overrated (Monte Kiffin and Peyton, you the real MVPs), and definitely not a HOF coach (or if he is, by default, so is Mike Tomlin). Don Shula won 2 Super Bowls before he ever got Marino, so he was a great coach before that point anyway.

Maybe the reality is there just aren't that many great coaches, that like QBs there's a few elite ones and that's it. Like if I have to consider Mike Tomlin a great coach, that says it all. Terry Bradshaw was bang on, he's a cheerleader more than anything. You aren't winning with Mike Tomlin because he provides the Xs and Os advantage. You're winning because Ben and Antonio and Le'Veon. We can't really find out how good McCarthy is until he's fired, or Rodgers leaves. If the Packers rolled on with McCarthy, says it all. If they roll on with McCarthy and without Rodgers, says it all.

And what credit does McCarthy get for Rodgers arm? Because it's Rodgers arm talent that makes him the greatest ever, and that's just natural. I also think Favre deserves a lot of credit for Aaron being how he is right now. Watching Favre chuck interceptions like they're going out of style with high risk, low reward throws obviously bled into Rodgers, arguably the greatest protector of the football at the QB position ever.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Drew Brees only became Drew Brees with the help of Sean Payton. San Diego remember let him go, so it wasn't like he was elite and just ended up in New Orleans. He became elite after Sean Payton. I think Dungy is overrated (Monte Kiffin and Peyton, you the real MVPs), and definitely not a HOF coach (or if he is, by default, so is Mike Tomlin). Don Shula won 2 Super Bowls before he ever got Marino, so he was a great coach before that point anyway.

Maybe the reality is there just aren't that many great coaches, that like QBs there's a few elite ones and that's it. Like if I have to consider Mike Tomlin a great coach, that says it all. Terry Bradshaw was bang on, he's a cheerleader more than anything. You aren't winning with Mike Tomlin because he provides the Xs and Os advantage. You're winning because Ben and Antonio and Le'Veon. We can't really find out how good McCarthy is until he's fired, or Rodgers leaves. If the Packers rolled on with McCarthy, says it all. If they roll on with McCarthy and without Rodgers, says it all.

Drew Brees got released because San Deigo had Rivers (who they preferred) and people thought his shoulder injury would impact his future. He' was a very good QB in San Diego and while I would agree Payton got the best out of him, there was a lot of talent there to work with too.
I think your 2nd point is bang on. Great coaches are few and far between. Bill Belichek is one of the top Football coaches I think we've ever seen so is that is your benchmark then sure McCarthy sucks. But I think if your benchmark is more realistic, he is a very good coach.

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

And what credit does McCarthy get for Rodgers arm? Because it's Rodgers arm talent that makes him the greatest ever, and that's just natural. I also think Favre deserves a lot of credit for Aaron being how he is right now. Watching Favre chuck interceptions like they're going out of style with high risk, low reward throws obviously bled into Rodgers, arguably the greatest protector of the football at the QB position ever.

You are willing to give Payton credit for Brees but McCarthy gets no credit for Rodgers? Not sure how that works.

I don't agree. Remember one of the knocks on Rodgers coming out of college was he lacked a Pro throwing motion that McCarthy had to rebuild. Rodgers completely changed how he threw the ball. Physical tools are one thing but you will also never get anywhere as a QB is you can't read a defense and understand situations and other than Brady who is better at that than Rodgers? I woudl actually argue there is no one better in the league at understanding situations than Rodgers. The fact that he is aware enough to count a defense and snap the ball if its more than 11 is a underrated skill and it's one that McCarthy played a big part in developing.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You probably need to ask this to other Packers fans. I listen to Sirius NFL daily and Packers fans for years have been calling in wanting both McCarthy and Thompson to be fired. It seems they get less respect from Packers fans than fans of the rest of the league. Plenty of fans of sad sack organizations would love to be in the mix for the playoffs every year.

I am a huge Packer fan and I would still say Packer fans are a bit notorious for being a little spoiled and I think get caught up in the "history" a bit too much. They hold fairly unrealistic expectations for their team because they are just that passionate about it. Surprisingly enough though, Mike Holmgren is still highly regarded and so far he has the same amount of Super Bowls as McCarthy.

Thompson I understand because he is frustrating as heck. Pretty difficult as a fan to support a GM that doesn't use the full arsenal of tools at his dispense and routinely fails to surround his a hall of fame QB with the proper talent. I think McCarthy has being really hamstrung by Thompson's refusal to properly support his team.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by cross16

Drew Brees got released because San Deigo had Rivers (who they preferred) and people thought his shoulder injury would impact his future. He' was a very good QB in San Diego and while I would agree Payton got the best out of him, there was a lot of talent there to work with too.
I think your 2nd point is bang on. Great coaches are few and far between. Bill Belichek is one of the top Football coaches I think we've ever seen so is that is your benchmark then sure McCarthy sucks. But I think if your benchmark is more realistic, he is a very good coach.



You are willing to give Payton credit for Brees but McCarthy gets no credit for Rodgers? Not sure how that works.

I don't agree. Remember one of the knocks on Rodgers coming out of college was he lacked a Pro throwing motion that McCarthy had to rebuild. Rodgers completely changed how he threw the ball. Physical tools are one thing but you will also never get anywhere as a QB is you can't read a defense and understand situations and other than Brady who is better at that than Rodgers? I woudl actually argue there is no one better in the league at understanding situations than Rodgers. The fact that he is aware enough to count a defense and snap the ball if its more than 11 is a underrated skill and it's one that McCarthy played a big part in developing.

Drew Brees was a UFA, not released. And per year, SD offered him the same contract as New Orleans ($10 million), New Orleans just had 6 years instead of 5 and more guaranteed (Remember when you could get a starting QB for $10 million a year? Good times...). And I don't think I've ever said McCarthy is a crappy coach, just that he isn't anything great and you could find lots of coaches who can win as much as he has in his time in GB with Aaron Rodgers as the QB. If he got fired, it's not like the Packers would go backwards next year. And it'd be the most in demand NFL job, someone like Sean Payton might resign from New Orleans to take it.

[transplant99]

Final lines

Both the spread and the o/u on Atl/GB up a pt and a half over the week.

The Pats/Steelers virtually unchanged.

1/22 3:05 ET At Atlanta -5.5 Green Bay 61.5
1/22 6:40 ET At New England -6 Pittsburgh 50.5

[transplant99]

Unreal...a Chicago barber created this on someones melon this morning. Impressive.

[station]

Atlanta 38 Green Bay 30
New England 31 Pittsburgh 28

Go Falcons!!!

[Sainters7]

My gut is totally saying Falcons, especially with GB's depleted secondary against that offence. But I just can't do it...

Packers 31.4 - 27.8
Patriots 33.7875 - 25.3138

[Senator Clay Davis]

Atlanta 41 Green Bay 30 (close game, late TD to stretch it)
New England 38 Pittsburgh 21

[transplant99]

Green Bay 34 Atlanta 30

Pittsburgh 20 NE 18

[Sylvanfan]

Green Bay 38 Atlanta 35
New England 24 Pittsburgh 17

[The Hendog]

Touchdown!!!

Quite the opening drive from Atlanta

That is how you will beat the Packers keep Rodgers off the field and don't give him a chance to get going

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by The Hendog

Touchdown!!!

Quite the opening drive from Atlanta

That is how you will beat the Packers keep Rodgers off the field and don't give him a chance to get going

This and you almost can't give Ryan all day to sit in the pocket while you play a zone defense. He pretty much picked them apart in that drive.

[Anduril]

Wow. A miss from that range?

[The Hendog]

Originally Posted by Anduril

Wow. A miss from that range?

Crosby only hits 50+ yards

Foolish Rodgers throwing that ball away instead of taking a sack and putting it right in Crosbys wheel house

[transplant99]

The magic has left the team....just way to many obstacles to overcome IMO.

Atlanta may make this a blowout by halftime.

IMO the ONLY chance the Pack have is to create a couple turnovers or a special teams play....something along those lines.

[The Hendog]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

This and you almost can't give Ryan all day to sit in the pocket while you play a zone defense. He pretty much picked them apart in that drive.

No doubt

That second and 13 and the Packers just gave them 15 yards - that afraid to get burned on the long bomb so sitting back? Atlanta is going to tune them I think if this continues

[Nsd1]

Too early to count Green Bay out. I want to see Pats Vs Packers.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Falcons have blown a 17 point second half lead to San Diego this year at home. Atlanta has to keep their foot on the gas all day, cannot let Rodgers have even a slight miracle prayer chance.

[MoneyGuy]

This isn't going well.