[Trade] Guentzel (25%), Smith to CAR for Bunting, Ponomarev, Lucius, Koivunen, cond 2nd/5th

[Zary's-Mustache]

This is such a bad deal for the pens. Has Dubas lost his marbles?

[PeteMoss]

Carolina prospects are hard to figure out in some cases because they don't have an AHL team so guys are scattered all over the place. But these guys seem fine. Outside of the elite guys - prospect rankings tend to be pretty shotty for hockey (see even the CP rankings)

[Claes]

Originally Posted by wireframe

It's weird that all media sources are listing a conditional 1st in this trade and a conditional 3rd in the Hanifiin trade. The condition to make the Guentzel return a first is far less likely than Hanifin return a 2nd (Stanley cup finals appearance vs win one playoff round). They should both be called conditional 2nd round picks.

I think the rule should be that the unfulfilled case should be the basis for the naming. So, for example, the lower pick Calgary got back in the Hanifin trade is a conditional third, because the condition needs to be fulfilled for it to be upgraded. By the same logic, Pittsburgh received a conditional second round pick. The likelihood of the condition being met, should not matter. In my opinion.

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[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

This one may take a bit of time to get over the hill with a 3rd team involved for retention.

Was a 3rd team involved for retention?

[Claes]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Carolina prospects are hard to figure out in some cases because they don't have an AHL team so guys are scattered all over the place. But these guys seem fine. Outside of the elite guys - prospect rankings tend to be pretty shotty for hockey (see even the CP rankings)

What's up with Carolina not having their own AHL affiliation? I remember them also sharing AHL team with Calgary a few years back. Do they have a differing development philosophy from the rest of the league?

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[CliffFletcher]

Presumably none of the other suitors for Guentzel were willing to give up a guaranteed 1st. And this for what many considered the top player available at the deadline.

Could just be a down market. Or maybe GMs have twigged onto the fact that spending prime assets on rentals rarely pays off. If this signals a trend, teams will have to exercise more foresight and discipline about their pending UFAs. We might see the market for these guys shift to the UFA+1 offseason.

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by Claes

What's up with Carolina not having their own AHL affiliation? I remember them also sharing AHL team with Calgary a few years back. Do they have a differing development philosophy from the rest of the league?

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Dundon is a meddling moron like Edwards.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Claes

What's up with Carolina not having their own AHL affiliation? I remember them also sharing AHL team with Calgary a few years back. Do they have a differing development philosophy from the rest of the league?

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They used to be affiliated with the Chicago Wolves who are one of the AHL teams that are individually owned and not owned by a NHL club.

They got into a major disagreement with the Wolves ownership group. Basically the Wolves wanted to prioritize winning and by winning they would develop prospects. The Wolves started to feel like Carolina didn't really care about winning and only wanted to do development.

So this year the Wolves aren't actually affiliated with any NHL team and Carolina has to go around and find spots for their prospects with other AHL teams.

Recent reporting from AHL media types says that the Canes are on the verge of buying an AHL franchise for next season.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Scooter

Dundon is a meddling moron like Edwards.

I wouldn't call him a moron. The team has thrived under his ownership as attendance has never been better. He seems to be more calculated and have a better understanding of restraint than most owners. IMO the league needs more owners like him and less of the Edwards, Aquilinis, Katz, type that never win anything because they can't get out of their own way.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by wireframe

It's weird that all media sources are listing a conditional 1st in this trade and a conditional 3rd in the Hanifiin trade. The condition to make the Guentzel return a first is far less likely than Hanifin return a 2nd (Stanley cup finals appearance vs win one playoff round). They should both be called conditional 2nd round picks.

Yeah trying to make the trade sound better for the Pens

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Brzustewicz is a much better prospect than anyone involved in this deal.

It’s debatable between Brzus and Koivunen. The rest I agreed.

Both are good prospects but no blue chip

[Royle9]

I think some people are sleeping on Koivunen.
The kid is going to be something.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

They used to be affiliated with the Chicago Wolves who are one of the AHL teams that are individually owned and not owned by a NHL club.

They got into a major disagreement with the Wolves ownership group. Basically the Wolves wanted to prioritize winning and by winning they would develop prospects. The Wolves started to feel like Carolina didn't really care about winning and only wanted to do development.

So this year the Wolves aren't actually affiliated with any NHL team and Carolina has to go around and find spots for their prospects with other AHL teams.

Recent reporting from AHL media types says that the Canes are on the verge of buying an AHL franchise for next season.

Even funnier is the Wolves are now 30 points out of 1st place in their division (or 21 points behind the Wranglers for a local view). So their big plan of winning is not exactly going swimmingly.

[GFG#1]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I wouldn't call him a moron. The team has thrived under his ownership as attendance has never been better. He seems to be more calculated and have a better understanding of restraint than most owners. IMO the league needs more owners like him and less of the Edwards, Aquilinis, Katz, type that never win anything because they can't get out of their own way.

Don't Forget Gaglardi as a meddling owner. remember him calling out Benn and Sequin a few years back.

https://www.thehockeyspotlight.com/p...uin-jamie-benn

Also in court as a defendant getting called out for jotting down line combinations.

https://vancouversun.com/news/metro/...laws-bc-lawyer

During the trial, Gaglardi often appeared unfazed by the proceedings and was seen jotting down Dallas Stars line combinations in a notebook and attempting to hide the use of his iPhone from court sheriffs.

[Ba'alzamon]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Even funnier is the Wolves are now 30 points out of 1st place in their division (or 21 points behind the Wranglers for a local view). So their big plan of winning is not exactly going swimmingly.

Losing their NHL affiliation meant they lost most of their best players. I feel like the Wolves go through this vicious cycle every few years.

[FurnaceFace]

I’m in the good return for a rental camp.

As mentioned Koivunen is putting up good numbers and is a well thought of prospect. His 20+ goals, 30+ assists in Liiga are likely where he ends up at his peak in the NHL. He’s not a su-restart but should be a solid top 6.

Ponomarev has decent numbers in the A after getting hurt at training camp. Brind’Amour liked him enough to give him a call up to fill in for injuries. He’ll likely be an NHLer, but more likely running a 3rd line at his peak.

Lucious is a PPGer in his first 2 years at Wisconsin. Wisconsin isn’t a powerhouse team so this is decent production. He was scouted as more of a playmaker than a scorer, but a decent piece.

Three prospects that all have some decent potential. They could easily end up scattered throughout the Pens lineup. It helps stock a quite empty prospect pool. This is a more solid deal than the initial reaction on here indicates.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Presumably none of the other suitors for Guentzel were willing to give up a guaranteed 1st. And this for what many considered the top player available at the deadline.

Could just be a down market. Or maybe GMs have twigged onto the fact that spending prime assets on rentals rarely pays off. If this signals a trend, teams will have to exercise more foresight and discipline about their pending UFAs. We might see the market for these guys shift to the UFA+1 offseason.

I think a few seasons of a flat cap plus a couple of recent expansion teams has increased the value of draft picks because it is still the easiest way to get players into the system on ELC's. Without cap increases teams have not had room to give regular raises or be able to add a player to fill a gap without losing one. So young players have been the only lifeline. After a couple seasons of cap increases, things might sway back a bit. But I do think draft pick value is at an all time high.