Better rebuild situation 2013 or 2024?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think there is more intent to rebuild in 2024 and the realization by management that you need to take some time to do it right.

I'm not so sure about that as it appears they are chasing the Dallas Stars model and they never really took time to do it right and it's more they had a run of incredible drafting that defies the odds.

[Toonage]

So weird for Conroy to suggest a "model" that involves winning a lottery. You can't replicate that. Its not a model.

You can hope for it. Thats about it.

[GullFoss]

The biggest differences seem to be that

(1) The quality of the front office is much higher today

(2) Huberdeau is going to be here sucking well after the rebuild is complete. This won't impact the early stages of the rebuild. But year 6-7 of his contract years are going to make signing RFAs and UFAs much more difficult.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm not so sure about that as it appears they are chasing the Dallas Stars model and they never really took time to do it right and it's more they had a run of incredible drafting that defies the odds.

I think chasing is a reach.

Conroy is a walking sound byte, and picking a team's "model" is better press conference material than just letting the city worry about say Buffalo.

I'm sure he's aware that it took a lottery win and a lot of good luck to nail a draft to that extent, and the only real take away is they want to draft well and have more picks.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Toonage

So weird for Conroy to suggest a "model" that involves winning a lottery. You can't replicate that. Its not a model.

You can hope for it. Thats about it.

You really think that even entered his mind when he brought them up?

It's simply an example of a team that rebuilt into a cup contender without tearing it to the ground and drafting top 5 multiple years in a row.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

You really think that even entered his mind when he brought them up?

It's simply an example of a team that rebuilt into a cup contender without tearing it to the ground and drafting top 5 multiple years in a row.

Of course, but its kind of a dumb thing to say out loud is it not? Just say "we see how well a team like Dallas has drafted, even outside of their lottery win".

But saying their model reminds me of Burke going ape#### over the Pittsburgh model quote.

[Bonded]

Think people are reading wayyyyyyy too much into this media sound bite. Can't take a quote as bible on their actual plans.
The Flames roster will likely turn over another 2-3 UFAs next year and sounds like Markstrom is gone. The best thing Treliving did was set up the roster to turn itself over. I'll get worried if they retain Markstrom and sign UFAs to long contracts.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Think people are reading wayyyyyyy too much into this media sound bite. Can't take a quote as bible on their actual plans.
The Flames roster will likely turn over another 2-3 UFAs next year and sounds like Markstrom is gone. The best thing Treliving did was set up the roster to turn itself over. I'll get worried if they retain Markstrom and sign UFAs to long contracts.

Yep. People are forgetting that actions speak louder than words. Conroy has basically done exactly what most fans wanted so far. Not sure why there is all the consternation.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Yep. People are forgetting that actions speak louder than words. Conroy has basically done exactly what most fans wanted so far. Not sure why there is all the consternation.

He's actually done even more than I wanted. Finding hidden gems and reclamation projects to trade back to teams at higher prices one year later is A+ work.

[Oil Stain]

Flames were in a better spot in 2013 just because of cap considerations.

The 2024 Flames have 3 long term and large contracts on guys on the downslope of their careers. Huberdeau and Kadri's are already negative value. Weegar's looks good now, but most NHLers start falling off in their 30s. That contract could become problematic in the future.

Talentwise its so hard to compare as we have the benefit of hindsight for one side. Someone saying Gaudreau would become a 99 point NHLer wouldn't have been taken seriously after his 12/13 season. Maybe Zary and Kylington go supernova, and change the equation. The future is always impossible to predict.

I do think the 2013 rebuild had some things happen that were very fortunate, after the rebuild started. Giordano going from just a guy at age 28 to a Norris trophy winner at age 34 is something you don't see very often.

Brodie becoming a top pairing D, Tkachuk was probably a one in 20-30 year 6th overall pick. Gaudreau exceeded all expectations. Monahan developed very quickly, and Boston decided to dump a young, first pairing D man for cheap right at an opportune time.

So a lot of very positive events happened in a cluster which allowed the Flames to avoid a lengthier rebuild in 2013. If the Flames have that level of good fortune again this time around, it'll be tougher to capitalize on the situation with so much of their future cap space tied up for so long.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Flames were in a better spot in 2013 just because of cap considerations.

The 2024 Flames have 3 long term and large contracts on guys on the downslope of their careers. Huberdeau and Kadri's are already negative value. Weegar's looks good now, but most NHLers start falling off in their 30s. That contract could become problematic in the future.

Talentwise its so hard to compare as we have the benefit of hindsight for one side. Someone saying Gaudreau would become a 99 point NHLer wouldn't have been taken seriously after his 12/13 season. Maybe Zary and Kylington go supernova, and change the equation. The future is always impossible to predict.

I do think the 2013 rebuild had some things happen that were very fortunate, after the rebuild started. Giordano going from just a guy at age 28 to a Norris trophy winner at age 34 is something you don't see very often.

Brodie becoming a top pairing D, Tkachuk was probably a one in 20-30 year 6th overall pick. Gaudreau exceeded all expectations. Monahan developed very quickly, and Boston decided to dump a young, first pairing D man for cheap right at an opportune time.

So a lot of very positive events happened in a cluster which allowed the Flames to avoid a lengthier rebuild in 2013. If the Flames have that level of good fortune again this time around, it'll be tougher to capitalize on the situation with so much of their future cap space tied up for so long.

Huberdeau is really the only boat anchor. Weegar is signed to a great contract and is following the similar late-blooming career path that Gio took, and if he keeps getting better, he could be a 34 year-old Norris trophy winner too. His contract is a deal now and it'll probably still look like a deal when it expires. Kadri's is still market, and I'm sure teams would be interested in him if he were made available and interested in moving on. He brings quite a bit of value to Calgary for the rebuild, though, as long as he keeps playing and mentoring like he did this last year (and doesn't go back to the first year I don't give a crap Kadri).

Calgary has a much better, deeper and more intriguing prospect base now than they had in 2013 (Gaudreau was 1 at the time, but the list got weak quickly and fell off hard after Jon Gillies at 4 or 5). Gaudreau turned into a superstar but Calgary has a few young guys now at forward, defence and in goal that could really explode.

Lots more to like these days than back then.

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

Huberdeau is really the only boat anchor. Weegar is signed to a great contract and is following the similar late-blooming career path that Gio took, and if he keeps getting better, he could be a 34 year-old Norris trophy winner too. His contract is a deal now and it'll probably still look like a deal when it expires. Kadri's is still market, and I'm sure teams would be interested in him if he were made available and interested in moving on. He brings quite a bit of value to Calgary for the rebuild, though, as long as he keeps playing and mentoring like he did this last year (and doesn't go back to the first year I don't give a crap Kadri).

Calgary has a much better, deeper and more intriguing prospect base now than they had in 2013 (Gaudreau was 1 at the time, but the list got weak quickly and fell off hard after Jon Gillies at 4 or 5). Gaudreau turned into a superstar but Calgary has a few young guys now at forward, defence and in goal that could really explode.

Lots more to like these days than back then.

Agree I Would take now. We have four picks in the first two rounds i would assume at least one is a defencemen. Out if our group of defencemen i would expect 3 or 4 to make the nhl in what capacities remains to be seen. Especially if our top pick is a buium, parehk, Dickinson, or yakemchuk.


Pelletier, coronato, klapka, lipinski, honzek should all be nhl’ers and whatever comes in this draft. Kerins have my doubts. Stormgren is my darkhorse. Suniev li like but he could stay in college.


Weegars contract isnt a burden. Huby overpaid but still a top six, kadri has earned his money this year, but at the end of the day we still have to ice entire team they can’t all be 18.

We have cap space may possibly add more picks if markstrom and eat bread go, and who knows right now what kuznenko and sharangovich want to do but i think sharangovich would return a pretty good package. Anderson could say he wents out he could return a package better than lindholm.

Honestly dont think its even close.

[Enoch Root]

Kadri was our best player this year - saying he has negative value misses the mark.

Weegar is still getting better every year, is only 30, and just had a 20 goal season. If he were a UFA, he'd be looking for something in the 8s. He is the furthest thing from negative value.

As for the contracts being a hindrance to a rebuild, not at all. Those 3 will be the veterans going forward, and their contracts will only serve to keep them over the floor. In 4 or 5 or 6 years, when the Flames are getting competitive, and some ELCs are starting to roll over, Kadri's contract will be easy enough to move, and Weegar may still be valuable. Huberdeau's is an anchor. But teams can survive one anchor contract cough#Nurse#cough

[troutman]

A new arena on the horizon should help in keeping and attracting players.

[Sylvanfan]

I say 2013 because there was more future cap flexibility. Plus in that environment draft picks were easier to acquire and didn't carry an essay worth of conditions.

Feaster and Burke did a poor job of things. So I'm confident that Conroy and his group will do a better job. Of course any lottery luck will make any rebuild more successful.

[Jason14h]

This is the better opportunity because the team doesn’t have a JG and most likely won’t get a MT at 6 . This means they should stay bad longer and bottom out harder . This would allow them to acquire some elite talent to go along with the nice depth prospects they have .

The key is to bottom out the next 2 seasons…..

[Calgary4LIfe]

One of the reasons why I was really hoping for Conroy to become the next GM is the fact that he was here through that rebuild. He has seen what went right and what went wrong.



As comparing the situations - 2013 is much better in terms of contracts. This year is better as it is a more seasoned head office and scouting department. I have more faith that the Flames have gotten their ducks in a row for this under Conroy and the assistant GMs (and Maloney) than under Feaster and Weisbrod.

[Sylvanfan]

The key will be if they still exhibit the same habits and behaviors that lead to the Hamilton and Hamonic deals. Those deals are okay if you're a top 4 seed on the cusp and looking to move forward. But as a bottom tier playoff team or non playoff team it's a lot of draft capital to give up to be trying to be a playoff team.

Many will argue that the results of the Hamilton trade were fine, they were...but trades can be close to 50-50. So that's why I look to habits and behaviors. The Avalanche or Lightning were not making this type of trade until 4-5 years into their cycle.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

Huberdeau is really the only boat anchor. Weegar is signed to a great contract and is following the similar late-blooming career path that Gio took, and if he keeps getting better, he could be a 34 year-old Norris trophy winner too. His contract is a deal now and it'll probably still look like a deal when it expires. Kadri's is still market, and I'm sure teams would be interested in him if he were made available and interested in moving on. He brings quite a bit of value to Calgary for the rebuild, though, as long as he keeps playing and mentoring like he did this last year (and doesn't go back to the first year I don't give a crap Kadri).

Calgary has a much better, deeper and more intriguing prospect base now than they had in 2013 (Gaudreau was 1 at the time, but the list got weak quickly and fell off hard after Jon Gillies at 4 or 5). Gaudreau turned into a superstar but Calgary has a few young guys now at forward, defence and in goal that could really explode.

Lots more to like these days than back then.

Huberdeau is the biggest concern but if we are patient, we may be able to get rid of him at some point.

With the cap set to escalate very quickly, IMO Kadri is tradeable and Weegar could have the best 30+ age contract in the NHL.

Salt Lake City will be a very interesting option for a ton of teams. With LTIR they have $50 mil cap space and a new owner looking to spend. I hope Conroy gets in on the action as they likely will be the busiest team in the league. Kadri could be a cheap pick up for them.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I don't think this is a 2013 vs 2024 discussion, this is a 2013 vs 2023 discussion. The state the team was in when Conroy took over in 2023 needs to be compared to when Treliving took over in 2013.

2013 was better because we had pretty much a clean slate to work from. The GM wasn't left with any trade debt to deal with and no real albatross contracts hanging around the team. The assets to dump in that first year weren't as good as Conroy got to work with but the prospect base was also better IMO.

Conroy has improved that prospect base in his first year of managing the team by getting some prospect depth at an area we needed help. He's been way more proactive in dealing with issues head on than the last GM. Conroy has got us off to a way better start in a rebuild or retool, and that started in earnest last summer IMO.