American Politics Thread: Orange is the new POTUS

[Senator Clay Davis]

So not a single representative from a region bordering Mexico supports the Trump Wall. Yet another massive L incoming for Donnie Smallhands.

Not a single member of Congress who represents the territory on the southwest border said they support President Donald Trump’s request for $1.4 billion to begin construction of his promised wall, according to a Wall Street Journal survey, testing the administration’s ability to reach a deal on government funding next week.

Most lawmakers representing the region—both Democrats and Republicans—said they are opposed and many said they have unanswered questions. A few were noncommittal, but not a single member of the House or Senate representing the region expressed support for the funding request. That includes nine members of the House and eight senators across four states: Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California.

The question is increasingly urgent as Congress and the White House scramble to agree on a spending bill needed to keep the government open. Existing funding for the government expires April 28, and the White House says it wants funding for the border wall as part of the package. Senior congressional Republicans have long indicated that they prefer to leave it out. That is partly because Senate Democrats are opposed, and their votes will be needed because most legislation requires 60 votes to clear the chamber, where Republicans hold 52 seats. Congressional Republicans have said they don’t want to risk the partial government shutdown that such a showdown could trigger.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/border-...est-1492802294

[photon]

In an unprecedented and dangerous move that threatens the press freedom rights of all journalists, the US Justice Department has indicated it is preparing to charge WikiLeaks with a crime and may attempt to arrest its founder Julian Assange. The charges may stem from the publication of US State Department cables in 2010 and their more recent of disclosure of CIA hacking tools.

Whether you like or dislike WikiLeaks – especially if you dislike them – it’s important to understand just how dangerous this potential prosecution is to the future of journalism in the United States. Newspapers publish classified information all the time, and any prosecution of WikiLeaks puts journalists of all stripes at risk of a similar fate. Even WikiLeaks’ harshest critics need to denounce this potential move as a grave threat to the first amendment.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ure-journalism

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

What? I suppose there does need to be a clearly defined middle. I think it's pretty clear that there is currently more government regulation economically then in Regans time. Politics has continually been moving further to the left as a whole on the spectrum since as well.

It is pretty obvious that the number of left leaning media outnumbers that of the right.

Freeer trade
Lower taxes and lower marginal tax rate for the rich
Better treatment of investment income
Less regulation around investing and loans - this one is debatable as the increase recently in regulation still hasn't overcome the deregulation under Clinton
Higher military spending

I'll give you more environmental regulation

What are you thinking of when you say more regulation.

Again you can't say more left leaning outlet than right without defining a middle ground. MSNBC is right of any political party in canada.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

You can't be serious. Most mainstream media has a very clear left of center lean to it, same with Hollywood and entertainment in general. If you are a right winger, there really isn't much for you in the media.

The media has been pretty hard on Trump, some of it justified and some of it not.

Lol

Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump

How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!
5:02 AM · Mar 4, 2017

"You should be talking to Fox," Trump said.

After the conference, Fox's Shepard Smith responded: "Fox News cannot confirm Judge Napolitano's commentary," apparently referring to the report Trump cited.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

It is pretty obvious that the number of left leaning media outnumbers that of the right.

Either defending or attacking this statement really requires some definitions of terms. In particular, you need to establish where the centre lies. Is the NYTimes an example of a centrist (in your mind) media outlet, or is it the Wall Street Journal, or is it the AP or Reuters? Or is it Buzzfeed? Defining what is 'to the left' and 'to the right' is really going to depend on where you draw that middle line.

Also, a definition of 'media' is required. Are you including talk-radio in your definition of media, because that's going to massively skew the numbers rightward - or are you excluding them? What about online? Is /r/the_donald or Drudge Report included in your definition of media? If they're excluded then are HuffPo and DailyKos excluded as well? What about Russia Today, where are they in your right-left spectrum?

What about on television? Is KJRH-2 out of Tulsa, Oklahoma automatically a 'left-leaning' outlet because they are an NBC affiliate, or would we actually need to delve into the coverage they offer to local issues to make a determination? What about KTVU-2, the San Francisco Fox affiliate?

Instead of just parroting empty talking points, actually do some research and offer something of value.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by photon

In an unprecedented and dangerous move that threatens the press freedom rights of all journalists, the US Justice Department has indicated it is preparing to charge WikiLeaks with a crime and may attempt to arrest its founder Julian Assange. The charges may stem from the publication of US State Department cables in 2010 and their more recent of disclosure of CIA hacking tools.

Whether you like or dislike WikiLeaks – especially if you dislike them – it’s important to understand just how dangerous this potential prosecution is to the future of journalism in the United States. Newspapers publish classified information all the time, and any prosecution of WikiLeaks puts journalists of all stripes at risk of a similar fate. Even WikiLeaks’ harshest critics need to denounce this potential move as a grave threat to the first amendment.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ure-journalism

its a tough one this, while I completely support WikiLeaks I utterly loathe Assange he's a self important little ***t and part of me would love to see him get some come uppance after throwing in his lot with Trump and the KGB.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by GGG

Freeer trade
Lower taxes and lower marginal tax rate for the rich
Better treatment of investment income
Less regulation around investing and loans - this one is debatable as the increase recently in regulation still hasn't overcome the deregulation under Clinton
Higher military spending

I'll give you more environmental regulation

What are you thinking of when you say more regulation.

Again you can't say more left leaning outlet than right without defining a middle ground. MSNBC is right of any political party in canada.

We pay more taxes now in all classes. Is there more government regulations in place now or during Regans era?

Military spending should be debatable, I know it's portrayed as a right wing philosophy but it requires tax dollars, small government shouldn't have a need for a large military. Leftist States spend large sums of money on military also, so you can't say that's just a right wing thing.

Regulation means government oversight and entitlements. We see the government pass more legislation then we see them get rid of right?

I was asking what definition of middle ground should we use? The Bolsheviks are almost more right then any political party in Canada, Socialism isn't it awesome!

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Lol

I said some of it is fair. I know this hard for you to understand, I'm not a Trump fan, he's terrible. The only pragmatic decision in my opinion was to vote for him over Hillary, not that he was a good candidate but she was demonstrably worse. I think both parties suck but the good cop image the Dems try to portray is such garbage, they are the party of division. Break everything down to Race, Religion, Sex, Gender, Class whatever they can to divide and then pretend they care, and people like you fall for it.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by driveway

Either defending or attacking this statement really requires some definitions of terms. In particular, you need to establish where the centre lies. Is the NYTimes an example of a centrist (in your mind) media outlet, or is it the Wall Street Journal, or is it the AP or Reuters? Or is it Buzzfeed? Defining what is 'to the left' and 'to the right' is really going to depend on where you draw that middle line.

Also, a definition of 'media' is required. Are you including talk-radio in your definition of media, because that's going to massively skew the numbers rightward - or are you excluding them? What about online? Is /r/the_donald or Drudge Report included in your definition of media? If they're excluded then are HuffPo and DailyKos excluded as well? What about Russia Today, where are they in your right-left spectrum?

What about on television? Is KJRH-2 out of Tulsa, Oklahoma automatically a 'left-leaning' outlet because they are an NBC affiliate, or would we actually need to delve into the coverage they offer to local issues to make a determination? What about KTVU-2, the San Francisco Fox affiliate?

Instead of just parroting empty talking points, actually do some research and offer something of value.

I was referencing the big mainstream media players, you know the "fake news" outlets. So actually read what I said.

I agree we need to have a defined centre, in my personal opinion, most of it is left of centre, especially in this country. Yeah local news will be differ, since I don't live in multiple areas at once I guess I can't say what the local news in Tulsa or San Fran are reporting. I'm fairly certain that the Tulsa news would be right of anything in San Fran, call it an educated guess.

What's an empty talking point? Did the mainstream media treat Trump and Hillary the same during the election process? Be honest now, I know it might be hard for you.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

I said some of it is fair. I know this hard for you to understand, I'm not a Trump fan, he's terrible. The only pragmatic decision in my opinion was to vote for him over Hillary, not that he was a good candidate but she was demonstrably worse. I think both parties suck but the good cop image the Dems try to portray is such garbage, they are the party of division. Break everything down to Race, Religion, Sex, Gender, Class whatever they can to divide and then pretend they care, and people like you fall for it.

Apparently you hear whatever you want to hear.

Break everything down to Race, Religion, Sex, Gender, Class whatever they can to divide and then pretend they care, and people like you fall for it.

Guess who said this?

“Our inner cities are a disaster. You get shot walking to the store. They have no education. They have no jobs. I will do more for African-Americans and Latinos than [Hillary Clinton] can do for 10 lifetimes.”

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

The only pragmatic decision in my opinion was to vote for him over Hillary, not that he was a good candidate but she was demonstrably worse.

Everyone has their own opinion, but I don't think I'll ever understand this line of thinking.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Apparently you hear whatever you want to hear.



Guess who said this?

You know it really is something to behold that smug self-righteousness that characterises modern left wing politics. The unfortunate part is with all the divisive tactics the Dems use, the GOP has to respond by appealing to block voters to combat it. When you disingenuously frame everything in manners of Race, Sex, Class or whatever, it forces a response in such a manner. If not you would be called some sort of "ist" and we all know there is no coming back from those accusations.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

You know it really is something to behold that smug self-righteousness that characterises modern left wing politics. The unfortunate part is with all the divisive tactics the Dems use, the GOP has to respond by appealing to block voters to combat it. When you disingenuously frame everything in manners of Race, Sex, Class or whatever, it forces a response in such a manner. If not you would be called some sort of "ist" and we all know there is no coming back from those accusations.

Lol, whatever dude, keep twisting things, not sure you'll convince anyone that wouldn't already be dumb enough to vote for Trump.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

I was referencing the big mainstream media players, you know the "fake news" outlets. So actually read what I said.

I agree we need to have a defined centre, in my personal opinion, most of it is left of centre, especially in this country. Yeah local news will be differ, since I don't live in multiple areas at once I guess I can't say what the local news in Tulsa or San Fran are reporting. I'm fairly certain that the Tulsa news would be right of anything in San Fran, call it an educated guess.

What's an empty talking point? Did the mainstream media treat Trump and Hillary the same during the election process? Be honest now, I know it might be hard for you.

lol

The problem is that many people far enough on the right (and left) have had their views normalized, so someone like you looks at the mainstream media, which is quite decidedly center on most issues (but sometimes it falls to right and left bias depending on the issue), and sees "left leaning."

It's really the fault of the infotainment organizations, like Breitbart, Buzzfeed, Fox News, Mother Jones, etc, that have completely normalized heavy partisanship under the guise of trustworthy info sources. So when someone who is used to Alex Jones sees something on a major network, they're so brainwashed into thinking their way of thinking is normal and acceptable that center-oriented news organizations suddenly seem "left leaning" and "unfair."

Funny how quickly the right became a mirror image of everything they pretend to hate about the left.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Everyone has their own opinion, but I don't think I'll ever understand this line of thinking.

He was a dice roll, we new what Hillary was and it wasn't going to be good. I would rather at least take that chance that Trump might do something good then the certainty that Hillary would run things further into the ground. She was the most corrupt candidate to ever run for the office of the President.

It was a crap choice either way in all honesty and the outcome was assured with such terrible options, a divided populace.

[PepsiFree]

A dice roll...

For the President...

vs. someone you knew wouldn't be ideal but wouldn't destroy the country...

The intelligence of the American voter folks!

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

He was a dice roll, we new what Hillary was and it wasn't going to be good. I would rather at least take that chance that Trump might do something good then the certainty that Hillary would run things further into the ground. She was the most corrupt candidate to ever run for the office of the President.
.

Completely hilarious, how was she corrupt?

Did she show her tax returns? What is trump hiding?

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Lol, whatever dude, keep twisting things, not sure you'll convince anyone that wouldn't already be dumb enough to vote for Trump.

That's your problem right there, you demonize your opposition, keep doing that and then keep wondering why your side of the aisle is losing. Yeah you are right bro, all Trump supporters are dumb and you are the $H!T.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

That's your problem right there, you demonize your opposition, keep doing that and then keep wondering why your side of the aisle is losing. Yeah you are right bro, all Trump supporters are dumb and you are the $H!T.

Here, read this.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...postcount=1330

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

A dice roll...

For the President...

vs. someone you knew wouldn't be ideal but wouldn't destroy the country...

The intelligence of the American voter folks!

Hillary was going to shred the constitution and the Neo-con war meddling in the Middle East would have been Bush level. Her progressive pandering was just too obviously disingenuous for the average voter with any sense. But yeah Trump is pretty awful too, such is the current state of national politics.