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Old 02-28-2013, 12:31 PM   #41
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What? Where? It's only ever been popular in Australia and New Zealand (mostly Australia) and it's popularity isn't decreasing at all.

And while you're right on the "battle for the ball" element, you rarely see rucks/scrums/mauls that result in the ball being turned over through anything but a penalty, at least at the top levels. There's a reason that clip is out of the ordinary, those sequences don't happen very often.
It is on life support 'cuz it is propped up by owners and not driven by fans/new players. FYI, it is still popular in pockets of the UK, mostly the north, the birth place of the game. It has no useful international game to speak of and is seeing players leave to go play union. The only games that draw any real attention of Orgin games.

You need to watch more rugby. There are lots of example's of counter rucking in this years 6N, Super rugby, Pemiership, Rabo Direct (stupid name for a league). Also, the very fact the game has the ability to punish those that have poor technicque is a postive. The games from this past weekend had plenty examples of counter rucking, ripping the ball in the tackle, and other techniques used to game possession.
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:23 PM   #42
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It is on life support 'cuz it is propped up by owners and not driven by fans/new players. FYI, it is still popular in pockets of the UK, mostly the north, the birth place of the game. It has no useful international game to speak of and is seeing players leave to go play union. The only games that draw any real attention of Orgin games.

You need to watch more rugby. There are lots of example's of counter rucking in this years 6N, Super rugby, Pemiership, Rabo Direct (stupid name for a league). Also, the very fact the game has the ability to punish those that have poor technicque is a postive. The games from this past weekend had plenty examples of counter rucking, ripping the ball in the tackle, and other techniques used to game possession.
I watch plenty of rugby, likely more than most as we get tons of games from a variety of league on my cable package. I see very little of the type of action you posted above, I see plenty of grinding, which I definitely enjoy, but it's very different than the speed game of League. I like both, but if I'm not invested in an outcome I prefer the speed of league most of the time.

As for your first paragraph, I'm not sure what your basis is. It's propped up by owners and not driven by fans? The only games that draw attention are origin? The average attendance per round in the 2012 NRL season was around 15,000, not all that far off from what we see in the NHL. The Final drew 82,000. This for a sport played largely in one area of a small country in the middle of nowhere.

There has never been an international component, although oddly enough there's actually more of one now than there has been in the past.

Players have routinely left to play Union, then returned to League, then gone back to Union. It's not a new development, it's something that has occurred in Australia for a long time.

It's never going to be a global game the way Union is, but to say it's on life support is a massive overstatement.
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:30 PM   #43
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I watch plenty of rugby, likely more than most as we get tons of games from a variety of league on my cable package. I see very little of the type of action you posted above, I see plenty of grinding, which I definitely enjoy, but it's very different than the speed game of League. I like both, but if I'm not invested in an outcome I prefer the speed of league most of the time.

As for your first paragraph, I'm not sure what your basis is. It's propped up by owners and not driven by fans? The only games that draw attention are origin? The average attendance per round in the 2012 NRL season was around 15,000, not all that far off from what we see in the NHL. The Final drew 82,000. This for a sport played largely in one area of a small country in the middle of nowhere.

There has never been an international component, although oddly enough there's actually more of one now than there has been in the past.

Players have routinely left to play Union, then returned to League, then gone back to Union. It's not a new development, it's something that has occurred in Australia for a long time.

It's never going to be a global game the way Union is, but to say it's on life support is a massive overstatement.
Sorry i wanted to respond sooner, then forgot. I watch maybe 4-5 games a week and have played for 20+ yrs.

League is played in 2 states in one country and a couple of counties in another. The leagues rarely expand, and outside of those that follow it few know much about it. Union at least has a higher profile than league world wide. TSN showed the last world cup. Hell will freeze over before the it would show the League world cup. Yes there is one. The sport is not expanding, while the argument could be made it is doing well in those areas, it is only mantaining, not growing. Perhaps, stagnant is a better term than life support.

League is a a boring game, 5 up then kick. All areas of contesting the ball have been removed:

Line out - gone, great place to steal the ball
scrum - neutered to such an extend it is useless
ruck - gone
maul - gone

If you watched the Blues v Crusaders game you saw some great work done by Ranger. He applied pressure to he ball carrier while on the ground causing them to give up a penalty. It is much akin to keeping you feet moving and drawing a tripping penalty in hockey. The skill shown by Ranger is amazing. The ability to control and maintain your body in the face of that physical pressure in amazing.

I can name a large number of players went from union:

-Davies
-Bateman
-Quinnell
-Gallagher
-'Inga
-Thorn
-Tait

Those were all before Union became professional. Other than SBW, what high profile Union players have gone to league? The movement is to the growing game of union.

I am also confused by you saying you
Quote:
prefer the speed of league most of the time
and also saying
Quote:
I also really like watching Union games that turn into a war of attrition between two great packs
those two comments couldn't be farther apart.

Quote:
What? Where? It's only ever been popular in Australia and New Zealand (mostly Australia) and it's popularity isn't decreasing at all.
Not to be rude, but but Northern England says high. The sport was "created" there and is still popular there, but wait I am making you point.
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:45 PM   #44
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do not turn on the music

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Old 03-11-2013, 10:12 AM   #45
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This is a young fella i played with (I was the old man on the team). He destroyed his ankle 1-2 yrs ago, good to see him back.

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Old 03-12-2013, 12:00 PM   #46
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Sorry i wanted to respond sooner, then forgot. I watch maybe 4-5 games a week and have played for 20+ yrs.

League is played in 2 states in one country and a couple of counties in another. The leagues rarely expand, and outside of those that follow it few know much about it. Union at least has a higher profile than league world wide. TSN showed the last world cup. Hell will freeze over before the it would show the League world cup. Yes there is one. The sport is not expanding, while the argument could be made it is doing well in those areas, it is only mantaining, not growing. Perhaps, stagnant is a better term than life support.

League is a a boring game, 5 up then kick. All areas of contesting the ball have been removed:

Line out - gone, great place to steal the ball
scrum - neutered to such an extend it is useless
ruck - gone
maul - gone

If you watched the Blues v Crusaders game you saw some great work done by Ranger. He applied pressure to he ball carrier while on the ground causing them to give up a penalty. It is much akin to keeping you feet moving and drawing a tripping penalty in hockey. The skill shown by Ranger is amazing. The ability to control and maintain your body in the face of that physical pressure in amazing.

I can name a large number of players went from union:

-Davies
-Bateman
-Quinnell
-Gallagher
-'Inga
-Thorn
-Tait

Those were all before Union became professional. Other than SBW, what high profile Union players have gone to league? The movement is to the growing game of union.

I am also confused by you saying you and also saying those two comments couldn't be farther apart.



Not to be rude, but but Northern England says high. The sport was "created" there and is still popular there, but wait I am making you point.
I'm not sure where to begin here.

First, it is possible to like a variety of different things at different times. Sometimes I like to watch a speedy league game, or a sevens game. Sometimes I like to watch a trench warfare style union game. It is possible to like things that are very different.

Second, you've already backtracked from it but the whole 'league is on life support' comment is garbage and the idea that it's just languishing around waiting to die is equally garbage. I spent a considerable amount of time in Australia and still talk to people down there pretty regularly and League far outpaces Union in general popularity in NSW, which isn't exactly a small population (and thanks for the education on the WC, I already acknowledge the international component of the game in my response). I never claimed it had global popularity, in fact I did the opposite. Why you're trying to argue points I didn't make is beyond me. The NRL continues to be very successful (and btw, they've recently added a team) and is actually the worlds most viewed and attended rugby competition, league or union.

People who don't follow it don't know much about it? You realize the same can be said for Union correct? Go ask the average non rugby fan about union and see what you get, saying 'All Blacks' or 'Haka' doesn't mean they know anything about it. Hell, the same could be said for hockey. Generally people who don't follow something don't know much about it.

As for players switching codes, it's nowhere near as one way as you make it out to be. Numerous players have gone back and forth, which is to be expected when you're dealing with games that share a number of elements and players that grew up playing both. Neither sport is likely to make you rich (average salary in NRL is a bit under $200k vs. around $230k for Super 14 in 2010).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...o_rugby_league

Honestly it just pisses me off when people slag on League unjustly. You don't like the game, that's great, but to pretty much make things up to slag on it is just dumb.

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Old 03-12-2013, 12:39 PM   #47
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I'm not sure where to begin here.

First, it is possible to like a variety of different things at different times. Sometimes I like to watch a speedy league game, or a sevens game. Sometimes I like to watch a trench warfare style union game. It is possible to like things that are very different.

Second, you've already backtracked from it but the whole 'league is on life support' comment is garbage and the idea that it's just languishing around waiting to die is equally garbage. I spent a considerable amount of time in Australia and still talk to people down there pretty regularly and League far outpaces Union in general popularity in NSW, which isn't exactly a small population (and thanks for the education on the WC, I already acknowledge the international component of the game in my response). I never claimed it had global popularity, in fact I did the opposite. Why you're trying to argue points I didn't make is beyond me. The NRL continues to be very successful (and btw, they've recently added a team) and is actually the worlds most viewed and attended rugby competition, league or union.

People who don't follow it don't know much about it? You realize the same can be said for Union correct? Go ask the average non rugby fan about union and see what you get, saying 'All Blacks' or 'Haka' doesn't mean they know anything about it. Hell, the same could be said for hockey. Generally people who don't follow something don't know much about it.

As for players switching codes, it's nowhere near as one way as you make it out to be. Numerous players have gone back and forth, which is to be expected when you're dealing with games that share a number of elements and players that grew up playing both. Neither sport is likely to make you rich (average salary in NRL is a bit under $200k vs. around $230k for Super 14 in 2010).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...o_rugby_league

Honestly it just pisses me off when people slag on League unjustly. You don't like the game, that's great, but to pretty much make things up to slag on it is just dumb.

You have yet to provide me with one high profile player that has gone from Union to League (SBW is started out in league). That link is full of players that made the move when Union was not professional. I can't think of many high profile player (S14, T14, Super Rugby Player) that has made the move.


This discussion is based on aimless thoughts:

Quote:
you rarely see rucks/scrums/mauls that result in the ball being turned over through anything but a penalty, at least at the top levels.

^^^^that statement is incorrect. You see turnovers all the time.


I would argue the speed of the ball in play is equal to if not greater than league. For example, I watched a Super League game on Sunday afternoon. A break was made, and cover tackle came across. The ball was unplayable becuase the defender was ontop of the player not allowing him to get up to play the ball. The support can only just stand and watch. In union you clear the player out and make the bal playable, prior to the defensive line setting up.


League is bosh bosh bosh.

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Neither sport is likely to make you rich (average salary in NRL is a bit under $200k vs. around $230k for Super 14 in 2010).

Where are those numbers from?


And one file argument against League..............John Hopoate.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:52 PM   #48
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You have yet to provide me with one high profile player that has gone from Union to League (SBW is started out in league). That link is full of players that made the move when Union was not professional. I can't think of many high profile player (S14, T14, Super Rugby Player) that has made the move.


This discussion is based on aimless thoughts:




^^^^that statement is incorrect. You see turnovers all the time.


I would argue the speed of the ball in play is equal to if not greater than league. For example, I watched a Super League game on Sunday afternoon. A break was made, and cover tackle came across. The ball was unplayable becuase the defender was ontop of the player not allowing him to get up to play the ball. The support can only just stand and watch. In union you clear the player out and make the bal playable, prior to the defensive line setting up.


League is bosh bosh bosh.




Where are those numbers from?


And one file argument against League..............John Hopoate.
I Don't care what you think about the style of play. You don't like it. I get it.

What I take issue with is your make believe claims about league being on life support and the like. You have yet to support the claims or to counter anything I've put forth on the matter.

And wow, a dirty player. Yep, only league has those

And the numbers are from the Sydney Morning Herald, you can look them up. I'm done with providing actual arguments if you're just going to make wild claims and not support them.

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Old 03-14-2013, 09:43 AM   #49
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The average salaries are hard to calculate. For NRL it is simple because their cap is set for 25 players ($232,000 average). Same goes for the Super League (average of 66,000 pounds)

Top 14, Super Rugby, Aviva Premiership have caps but there are so many loopholes, credits and exemptions that it is hard to keep track of them. Not to mention there are club salaries and international contracts for each, and in the case of the Pro12 and Super Rugby, the caps are imposed by the governing body of the country the club is in and not by the league itself (the ARU pays more money than their NZ counterparts; Ospreys had to offload a lot of their stars because of the WRU cap but Ulster was able to keep opening McIlroy's chequebook etc). But the average salaries of the Top 14 and Aviva Premiership are in the 230,000 euros and 130,000 pound ranges if I've done the salary cap math right and that would be the low end because of the lack of transparency for how the contracts are counted.




But enough of that...

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Old 03-18-2013, 10:18 AM   #50
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I Don't care what you think about the style of play. You don't like it. I get it.

What I take issue with is your make believe claims about league being on life support and the like. You have yet to support the claims or to counter anything I've put forth on the matter.

And wow, a dirty player. Yep, only league has those

And the numbers are from the Sydney Morning Herald, you can look them up. I'm done with providing actual arguments if you're just going to make wild claims and not support them.

You have never supported your statement that:

Quote:
Players have routinely left to play Union, then returned to League, then gone back to Union. It's not a new development, it's something that has occurred in Australia for a long time.
Your own Wiki page refutes that statement. Since Union went pro, it has been a one way valve. After you pick up your toys from the cot, please provide me with your list of high profile Union players that have left to play league.

This is an older article 2 yrs old almost to the day, but an insteresting read:

http://www.smh.com.au/business/nrl-p...0309-pvrt.html

Quote:
However, with 25 players at each of the NRL's 16 clubs, the average salary is well below the mean of Super 14's 132 fully contracted players and lower than the AFL average payment.
Ian Schubert, the NRL's salary cap boss, says the average NRL salary in 2010 will be $164,000, based on 25 players sharing $4.1 million, although the $5.5 million in sponsorship money across the NRL lifts the average to $177,750.
This is well short of the medium 2008 AFL payment of $233,000. An AFL spokesman said the 2009 figures would not be available for three weeks but salaries had increased 4 per cent on 2008, meaning the average payment to the players at the AFL's 16 clubs last year, including marketing deals, would be $240,000 to $245,000.
''Total payments to players in 2008 was $129 million and AFL revenue was $327 million, while separate club revenue would probably be $200 million,'' an AFL spokesman said, meaning players share of total revenue was 24.4 per cent.
According to the Australian Rugby Union Players Association, the average 2008 player salary for Australia's four Super 14 franchises (Brumbies, Reds, Waratahs and Western Force) was $238,738, on a par with the AFL and also well above the NRL.
Another factor is the effort involved in earning the income.
The NRL men play two more games a year than AFL players and nearly double the 13 matches played by a Super 14 player, although Wallabies play an additional 12 to 15 games a year.


So in short, League players work harder for their money, their prospective employers are 2 leagues (Super League and NRL). Union players work less for their money, and have much more prospective employers, AVIVA, Top 14, Super Rugby, Rabodirect.

Here are a few articles on rugby league:

http://www.leaguefreak.com/who-will-...om-dying-1453/

http://www.foxsports.com.au/league/h...-1226530178890
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:11 AM   #51
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You have never supported your statement that:



Your own Wiki page refutes that statement. Since Union went pro, it has been a one way valve. After you pick up your toys from the cot, please provide me with your list of high profile Union players that have left to play league.

This is an older article 2 yrs old almost to the day, but an insteresting read:

http://www.smh.com.au/business/nrl-p...0309-pvrt.html

[/COLOR][/LEFT]


So in short, League players work harder for their money, their prospective employers are 2 leagues (Super League and NRL). Union players work less for their money, and have much more prospective employers, AVIVA, Top 14, Super Rugby, Rabodirect.

Here are a few articles on rugby league:

http://www.leaguefreak.com/who-will-...om-dying-1453/

http://www.foxsports.com.au/league/h...-1226530178890
I love that you quote me and still can't seem to grasp what the words mean. Did I say high profile players routinely leave union to play league? Hmm, sure doesn't look like it. The wiki page supports my statement, unfortunately it doesn't support some made up statement that I didn't make.

And thanks for an article about league in the UK, which I have never discussed, and one that is about an underlying entity that has a 50% stake in a team, not the team itself.

Ironically enough that link did lead me to this page eventually.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/league/p...iri&team=55014

There's a nice example for you.

Honestly, what's your problem? I don't understand the butthurt mentality that people like you take when someone has the gall to say that they prefer league to union. Grow up.

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Old 03-18-2013, 11:30 AM   #52
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I love that you quote me and still can't seem to grasp what the words mean. Did I say high profile players routinely leave union to play league? Hmm, sure doesn't look like it. The wiki page supports my statement, unfortunately it doesn't support some made up statement that I didn't make.

And thanks for an article about league in the UK, which I have never discussed, and one that is about an underlying entity that has a 50% stake in a team, not the team itself.

Ironically enough that link did lead me to this page eventually.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/league/p...iri&team=55014

There's a nice example for you.

Honestly, what's your problem? I don't understand the butthurt mentality that people like you take when someone has the gall to say that they prefer league to union. Grow up.
Wait is that the same guy that jumped to Union in his prime, then returned to League after:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1225769861384

Great example.

I like how League supportors, after what 100 yrs of being professional, still can't accept the sport is not growing. After only approx 25 yrs of profressional has surpassed League, in numbers/money and ability to draw players world wide.

Makes you wonder who has a "butthurt mentality".........
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:33 AM   #53
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Wait is that the same guy that jumped to Union in his prime, then returned to League after:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1225769861384

Great example.

I like how League supportors, after what 100 yrs of being professional, still can't accept the sport is not growing. After only approx 25 yrs of profressional has surpassed League, in numbers/money and ability to draw players world wide.

Makes you wonder who has a "butthurt mentality".........
Why would I be butthurt? I like both. I'm not going around slagging Union for no reason. You're the one who apparently feels the need to talk ####. I'm not sure if it makes you feel better about yourself or what, but it's odd behavior.

The best part is that you don't seem to be able to accomplish the simple task of comprehending anything I've said. I'm not sure who you're arguing with, because the majority of the stuff you have said is completely unrelated to any of my points. Bravo.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:38 AM   #54
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Why would I be butthurt? I like both. I'm not going around slagging Union for no reason. You're the one who apparently feels the need to talk ####. I'm not sure if it makes you feel better about yourself or what, but it's odd behavior.

The best part is that you don't seem to be able to accomplish the simple task of comprehending anything I've said. I'm not sure who you're arguing with, because the majority of the stuff you have said is completely unrelated to any of my points. Bravo.

You know what forget it. You are right, League is strong and vibrant.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:38 AM   #55
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The average salaries are hard to calculate. For NRL it is simple because their cap is set for 25 players ($232,000 average). Same goes for the Super League (average of 66,000 pounds)

Top 14, Super Rugby, Aviva Premiership have caps but there are so many loopholes, credits and exemptions that it is hard to keep track of them. Not to mention there are club salaries and international contracts for each, and in the case of the Pro12 and Super Rugby, the caps are imposed by the governing body of the country the club is in and not by the league itself (the ARU pays more money than their NZ counterparts; Ospreys had to offload a lot of their stars because of the WRU cap but Ulster was able to keep opening McIlroy's chequebook etc). But the average salaries of the Top 14 and Aviva Premiership are in the 230,000 euros and 130,000 pound ranges if I've done the salary cap math right and that would be the low end because of the lack of transparency for how the contracts are counted.




But enough of that...


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Old 03-18-2013, 11:47 AM   #56
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You know what forget it. You are right, League is strong and vibrant.
In Australia it is, which is all I have ever argued, despite your best efforts to inject a variety of other claims into the discussion.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:55 AM   #57
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It's a good time if your team is doing well... in my case the Auckland Blues are having a disastrous year.
Your Blues are playing very well.
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:04 PM   #58
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:17 AM   #59
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Watched the Brumbies v Stormers game, and so happy to see the "oldman" back. He should adding to his cap total.

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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993

Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993

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Originally Posted by Sliver View Post
Just ignore me...I'm in a mood today.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:33 AM   #60
valo403
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