[News] Burke says he is unlikely to trade up... hasn't watched Bennett

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

There is no board.

Then why do teams trade down the draft when they think they can get their player at a later pick? What's giving them the idea that player X is roughly going to be available there later? There might be no black and white, there for everyone to see board, but barring a few prospects who slip and rise dramatically the rough tier that players are slotted into are not far off.

Now, how "off board" the Jankowski selection was is debatable considering Button and a few other articles mentioned he was going to go soon after our pick if we didn't nab him BUT an elite team taking a flyer, which is more or less what the pick was, on an extremely raw player is completely different than a prospect barren team doing the same thing. It was and still is a questionable selection.

[Scoreface]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Ooooh look. The Mark Jankowski thread spilled into this thread.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

There is no board.

Oh come off it.
Yeah each team has their own list but there is a general consensus of the draft order by the various scouting agencies and reporters. That's why we have a poll of the top five consensus top picks in our other draft thread. Sure we may pick another player say that's in the 5 to 8 group and no one educated on the subject will bat an eye but if we pick a player ranked in the 20 to 30 grouping people will question it and say it was off the board.

[MrMastodonFarm]

There is no board.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Poor drafting has a negative effect on the team period, especially when you go off the board to do it.

Yeah, you seem to have missed this part of my post:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

...I guess my point is that so long as the team is competent, these things will tend to even themselves out in the end.

Of course poor drafting will have a negative effect on the team. I think that is pretty obvious, but I don't see how that in any way extends to the Jankowski pick. It MIGHT be a bad pick (we don't know yet, and won't for some time), but it is surrounded by a whole lot of very good picks. The Flames seem to have drafted quite well in the past few years, which fits precisely with what I posted: if Jankowski doesn't pan out, chances are that another player unexpectedly will (Granlund? Gaudreau? Klimchuk? Reinhart? Arnold? Ferland?

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Dagger

Then why do teams trade down the draft when they think they can get their player at a later pick? What's giving them the idea that player X is roughly going to be available there later? There might be no black and white, there for everyone to see board, but barring a few prospects who slip and rise dramatically the rough tier that players are slotted into are not far off...

So you state that teams do not have the same rankings to make a point about they're being a board?

[snipetype]

Every team has good picks. Every team has bad picks. Every team has guys that pan out, every team has guy that fizzle out. Sometimes NHL teams scouting departments have different boards then the ISS and CSS and their pick seems off the board (Poirier and jankowski). Owell! Picking 18 year olds is no easy task, especially outside the top ten.


Everyone points to Hertl and teravainen. Yes they are good players. But jay feaster and weisbrod almost exclusively picked North Americans during their tenure. (Granlund, rafikikov, and baertschi are the exceptions).
In general, feaster likes his North American players.
So rather than say oh we missed out on this player or that player. Why don't we stop crying about teravainen and Hertl and maata and be thankful of all the other talent feaster brought in to help us move out of obscurity.
I mean the guy picked more talented players in the last 3 years than the organization had in the previous 15 years.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Bunch of people thought Poirier was "off the board" last year but Redline had him at 21 and said he was improving so fast late in the season he could've been top 15 if the season was a couple weeks longer.

MMF is right, there is no board. NHL teams always disagree massively except sometimes on the very top few guys.

[googol]

All it takes is one other team interested in the pick to throw the board out the window.

[bucksmasher]

Originally Posted by snipetype

Every team has good picks. Every team has bad picks. Every team has guys that pan out, every team has guy that fizzle out. Sometimes NHL teams scouting departments have different boards then the ISS and CSS and their pick seems off the board (Poirier and jankowski). Owell! Picking 18 year olds is no easy task, especially outside the top ten.


Everyone points to Hertl and teravainen. Yes they are good players. But jay feaster and weisbrod almost exclusively picked North Americans during their tenure. (Granlund, rafikikov, and baertschi are the exceptions).
In general, feaster likes his North American players.
So rather than say oh we missed out on this player or that player. Why don't we stop crying about teravainen and Hertl and maata and be thankful of all the other talent feaster brought in to help us move out of obscurity.
I mean the guy picked more talented players in the last 3 years than the organization had in the previous 15 years.

I still think its an error to blame or congratulate feaster for the picks. He let the scouting team make the decisions from all reports. If there is anyone to blame for Janks it could be the entire organization for being center deprived for so long.

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by the2bears

So you state that teams do not have the same rankings to make a point about they're being a board?

Hehe, good catch!

[albertGQ]

If Ryan MacInnis got drafted first overall by the Panthers, its safe to say that they went off the board.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

If Ryan MacInnis got drafted first overall by the Panthers, its safe to say that they went off the board.

Not their draft board.

[ClubFlames]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

If Ryan MacInnis got drafted first overall by the Panthers, its safe to say that they went off the board.

There is no board.

[Gaskal]

I don't blame Feaster for the picks, I blame him for overhyping the piss out of Jankowski and putting a lot of pressure on the kid. What a ridiculously stupid move that was, in comparison to Burke's "I don't expect much".

Also:

Spoiler!

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

If Ryan MacInnis got drafted first overall by the Panthers, its safe to say that they went off the board.

Since nothing like this has ever happened, and since something like this is not likely ever to happen, it is then pretty reflective of the fact that there is no board.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by the2bears

So you state that teams do not have the same rankings to make a point about they're being a board?

Of course there is no consensus board in a draft, but to say that teams don't have roughly similar lists bar a few meteoric risers and droppers is accurate, especially in the top end of the draft. I'm not saying that Poirier or Jankowski is off the board because of where MacKenzie or some list has them lower, as there likely are a few teams high on these types of players forcing us to make a decision.


Let's say Keegan Kanzig was drafted 6th overall instead of Monahan, what does that then become? Apparently it can't be off the board according to this forum, but by every possible measure of value(which is what drafting prospects relative to your draft slot is all about) it's incredibly low. Hence making it off the board.

[MrMastodonFarm]

I love extreme examples to prove points.

If Keenan Kanzig was drafted 6th overall by the Calgary Flames then he wouldn't have been off the board, he would have been 6th overall on their draft board.

Each teams personal draft lists are the only one that matter, not these imaginary ones fans focus on and sulk over when things don't go according to a fictional plan.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Since nothing like this has ever happened, and since something like this is not likely ever to happen, it is then pretty reflective of the fact that there is no board.

What is something "like this"? If there is no board, which can be defined as loosely or rigidly as you like, then I find it hard to see your point. Ryan Macinnis is a prospect entering the draft just like Ekblad, Reinhart et all, how does this reflect there is no board? You're dismissing the notion of a board by way of dismissing the chances of a lower rated prospect getting taken first overall....that's the definition of a board.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Dagger

What is something "like this"? If there is no board, which can be defined as loosely or rigidly as you like, then I find it hard to see your point. Ryan Macinnis is a prospect entering the draft just like Ekblad, Reinhart et all, how does this reflect there is no board? You're dismissing the notion of a board by way of dismissing the chances of a lower rated prospect getting taken first overall....that's the definition of a board.

I'll bump this post for you.

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Bunch of people thought Poirier was "off the board" last year but Redline had him at 21 and said he was improving so fast late in the season he could've been top 15 if the season was a couple weeks longer.

NHL teams always disagree massively except sometimes on the very top few guys.

Each team has their own lists, there is no monolithic universal draft board that each team follows. They have their own lists. I have no idea why this is such a tough idea for some of you.

There is no single one draft board to rule them all, one board to find them, one board to bring them all and in darkness bind them.