Calgary Public Transit - Discussion

[albertGQ]

Will the construction work on 5th ave (between center street and 1st street) really be done by tomorrow? Seems like a lot of work left to do and the 301 has been a nightmare this week

[KelVarnsen]

How busy is Brentwood station at around 7:15 in the morning?

[temple5]

Green line confirmed to Centre Street

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...597/story.html
Road will eventually be pared down to 2 lanes of traffic (which makes sence with a Centre Street routing).

As a slum lord condo owner along Centre Street I like this decision.

As a taxpayer I would have rather had the line go up Edmonton Trail and a street tram to go up Centr Street as there seems to be more re-development opportunities along Edmonton Trail for increasing the taxbase for the City.

[shermanator]

And of course, Sean Chu is against the project going up Centre Street because of existing traffic.

Coun. Sean Chu, who represents much of the route, said in March he preferred a train along Edmonton Trail, because its automobile traffic volumes are lighter.
“We should not disrupt people’s lives, as much as we can,” he said.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by shermanator

And of course, Sean Chu is against the project going up Centre Street because of existing traffic.

Sounds to me like he doesn't understand the purpose of transit very well.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I think his lack of understanding of transit has to do with the fact he's ######ed, but maybe that's me.

[tvp2003]

If Centre Street is reduced to two lanes between 16 Ave and McKnight, a lot of additional traffic will be pushed over to 4 Street W and Edmonton Trail. Many people that drive into the core are still going to drive, and they'll need a way to get over the river.

Of course, we're still 15-25 years out, so lots of time to figure it all out.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Didn't the river crossing dictate that a large portion of south of 16th ave leg was going to be underground anyways?

If there's 1 section I do hope is underground - it's 16th and Center. That intersection does not need train delays to add to its current misery.

[terminator]

So what does the new green line mean for the never talked bout one-day SE train?

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by terminator

So what does the new green line mean for the never talked bout one-day SE train?

It's one line - Green Line is the North Central and SE.

Both or contingent on funding. Both are starting as dedicated busways that can easily transition to rail - paid for by the infamous $52 million tax room - which was turned into a "Green Line Fund"

[jwslam]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Will the construction work on 5th ave (between center street and 1st street) really be done by tomorrow? Seems like a lot of work left to do and the 301 has been a nightmare this week

AND... STILL not done and probably won't be for months to come.
Seriously, WTF is up with this city's construction having zero consideration to impact on people's lives. This stupid construction easily cost thousands of people a comined millions of hours.

[Ozy_Flame]

I think the exciting thing is that an LRT down Centre Street can really rejuvenate that area. Transit-Oriented Development will make that a great corridor for people to live in and around. Besides, it's flanked by neighbourhoods on both sides with higher population density. Chu's idea of Edmonton Trail is stupid because it goes completely out of the way from where most people are logically going to commute from.

Seriously though, I think they should just pony up the money if possible and make it one giant loop connected to Whitehorn via Country hills Boulevard, and pass through the airport as an official stop. But that's my pipe dream.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I think the exciting thing is that an LRT down Centre Street can really rejuvenate that area. Transit-Oriented Development will make that a great corridor for people to live in and around. Besides, it's flanked by neighbourhoods on both sides with higher population density. Chu's idea of Edmonton Trail is stupid because it goes completely out of the way from where most people are logically going to commute from.

Seriously though, I think they should just pony up the money if possible and make it one giant loop connected to Whitehorn via Country hills Boulevard, and pass through the airport as an official stop. But that's my pipe dream.

It *can* be, but one look at 36th St NE, with the C Train running down the center of it, you realize that the train can also split the neighbourhood in two. A big set of tracks going down the center of the road, with the overhead wires, and a fence keeping people from crossing the road, could kill the neighbourhood just as quickly as a nice, off to the side station like the one in Sunnyside, can rejuvenate it. Add to the fact that fewer cars will be using a two lane road, reducing non-peak usership, and parking possibilities (always more difficult to have a parking lot entrance crossing a pair of tracks), and this could kill a thriving street. The only real way that Center Street will work well, is if the busiest parts of that street are a subway, which will increase costs substantially, reducing the liklihood this line will be built in a timely manner.

Edmonton Trail, however, while an up and coming street, is lined by very low-end crappy housing, that can't be easily retrofitted to a commercial street. That is a street that would be easy to buy property to build a proper side of the street train line with minimal reduction in lanes or traffic. This street could use a big pick-me-up in terms of retailers and businesses. And it really is only 2 blocks away from Center Street, with the biggest divide being closest to downtown - the area with the lowest transit using population. I can't figure out why everyone thinks Edmonton Trail is such a poor option, in my mind it is a clearly better one. Especially if the plan includes a Center Street tram in addition to a LRT people mover down Edmonton.

I REALLY hope the city planners at the city of Calgary have plans in place to mitigate these issues with a Center Street north alignment. They had better be on their A game, or they could theoretically muck everything in the area up.

[Burninator]

Is there a timeline for this?

[Bunk]

The idea for a low floor urban LRT is to function, look and feel nothing like 36th Street. Think St. Clair or Spadina in Toronto.

Originally Posted by Knalus

It *can* be, but one look at 36th St NE, with the C Train running down the center of it, you realize that the train can also split the neighbourhood in two. A big set of tracks going down the center of the road, with the overhead wires, and a fence keeping people from crossing the road, could kill the neighbourhood just as quickly as a nice, off to the side station like the one in Sunnyside, can rejuvenate it. Add to the fact that fewer cars will be using a two lane road, reducing non-peak usership, and parking possibilities (always more difficult to have a parking lot entrance crossing a pair of tracks), and this could kill a thriving street. The only real way that Center Street will work well, is if the busiest parts of that street are a subway, which will increase costs substantially, reducing the liklihood this line will be built in a timely manner.

Edmonton Trail, however, while an up and coming street, is lined by very low-end crappy housing, that can't be easily retrofitted to a commercial street. That is a street that would be easy to buy property to build a proper side of the street train line with minimal reduction in lanes or traffic. This street could use a big pick-me-up in terms of retailers and businesses. And it really is only 2 blocks away from Center Street, with the biggest divide being closest to downtown - the area with the lowest transit using population. I can't figure out why everyone thinks Edmonton Trail is such a poor option, in my mind it is a clearly better one. Especially if the plan includes a Center Street tram in addition to a LRT people mover down Edmonton.

I REALLY hope the city planners at the city of Calgary have plans in place to mitigate these issues with a Center Street north alignment. They had better be on their A game, or they could theoretically muck everything in the area up.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Burninator

Is there a timeline for this?

As soon as we have the money. Press your MLA for a new funding deal for our cities that will enable this kind of infrastructure investment.

In the meantime, using the infamous $52 million dedicated over ten years for the Green Line fund (North Central and SE legs) the first stage will be dedicated busway and full streetscape rebuild - busway design to easily convert to rail when the time comes.

[ExiledFlamesFan]

I'm very surprised we haven't heard of tolls being used to fund this NCLRT and SELRT.

A $4 toll on all roads entering the city from 4-10 AM M-F could generate huge amounts of money considering how fast the parasite communities are growing and how many of the parasites work in the city and commute daily to the city. Give commercial vehicles exemption so they don't have to pay.

Tolls at city limits:
-NW Crowchild
-1A from the East
-Deerfoot at North and South
-2A South
-Centre St N for those sneaky Airdries

Lets say that about 40 000 cars are commuting into Calgary daily from these communities. 40 000 X $4 is $160 000/day. 260 work days in a year X $160 0000=$41 million per year.

Not only would this generate large revenues for the city, it would also increase property values within the city, thereby increasing property taxes, and would also increase demand of real estate in city limits.

Bunk, any word if city hall has considered tolls? I'm sure there would be some legal hoops to jump thru with provincial highways, but it could be a great revenue stream for the city of Calgary. It could also help with congestion on the main roads coming into the city. Win win win.

If you are gonna use the cities infrastructure (LRT, roads) you should pay for it.

[Tyler]

Tolls will be a hard sell in Calgary. Will take huge political cajones to be the first government to implement them

[ExiledFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Tolls will be a hard sell in Calgary. Will take huge political cajones to be the first government to implement them

The parasites don't vote in a city of Calgary election. If you tell Calgarians that tolls would help pay for infrastructure, reduce congestion, and raise their property values they'd overwhelmingly support it.

The last tolls I used in New Zealand simply scanned your license plate as you drove by. It wasn't a hassle whatsoever.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I think the exciting thing is that an LRT down Centre Street can really rejuvenate that area. Transit-Oriented Development will make that a great corridor for people to live in and around. Besides, it's flanked by neighbourhoods on both sides with higher population density. Chu's idea of Edmonton Trail is stupid because it goes completely out of the way from where most people are logically going to commute from.

Seriously though, I think they should just pony up the money if possible and make it one giant loop connected to Whitehorn via Country hills Boulevard, and pass through the airport as an official stop. But that's my pipe dream.

If this line were completed to the city limits in the north and the initial SE plan, I would have a 10 minute walk to each station at home and at work. It may be enough to get me out of my car. But I probably will not be in the same situation 35 years from now when that finally happens. So this is somewhat exciting news for me.

I've also started to wonder now that they basically have the plan for the green line hammered out, should they be working on a broader plan for what comes next in mass-transit. To me history has shown when governments come up with an initial Idea 30-50 years out they become implemented allot better/cheaper/easier.

Should the city be looking at how commuter rail from the suburb towns could work going forward.

Should they be looking a cross town route?
May sound a little crazy at first, but having a spur that goes from the NE to the Airport is on allot of peoples minds, and why not carry it to the N line too.
I personally think a Spur Line from the NE to the SE lines down 52nd would have great usage, lots of jobs in that area, good demographics for transit.
Any Rail access to all of the future communities south of the Tsu Tina would need a spur from the S line, so why no carry it to the SE line.
Is there a why that it would makes sense to have a line connecting the The two Universities, The Foothills, the Rocky View, and COP? That one might be a bit more of a stretch. But I could see a utility in all four of those, and they would cover 75% of the citys cross town route.

Another thing I think they should really look at i making transit more bicycle friendly during rush hour. It would expand the radius that train stations are useful for.

Maybe not time to start asking when for if any of this stuff could happen, but can, how and should some of this stuff happen. To become a truly transit orientated city they need to look at ways to make transit as seemless as driving for a huge percentage of the population.

Originally Posted by Knalus

Edmonton Trail, however, while an up and coming street, is lined by very low-end crappy housing, that can't be easily retrofitted to a commercial street. That is a street that would be easy to buy property to build a proper side of the street train line with minimal reduction in lanes or traffic. This street could use a big pick-me-up in terms of retailers and businesses. And it really is only 2 blocks away from Center Street, with the biggest divide being closest to downtown - the area with the lowest transit using population. I can't figure out why everyone thinks Edmonton Trail is such a poor option, in my mind it is a clearly better one. Especially if the plan includes a Center Street tram in addition to a LRT people mover down Edmonton.

I think most people see center street being a more walkable location for more people. Keep in mind there probably wont be much parking at any inner city stations. My biggest problem with Edm trail is the connection the Downtown and Harvest Hills Blvd, look like they would be less effective for surrounding communities. The Center Street options are better and make more sense. Either way, I think a Subway will be needed at 16th Ave, and a grade separation will be needed at the river.

With both options given how close the roads are to each other, and the different style of train they are looking at I don't think there is a vastly better choice. Edm Trail less impact on traffic, Center Street less impact on Communities. Neither option is perfect.