What is Daniil Miromanov?

[saillias]

With the small sample size we have I like him better than Kylington right now. Both potentially have room to grow with missing significant time but Kylington particularly struggled whereas Miromanov seems like a solid top 4 player on this roster now. It's interesting to see perspective like he might be at best a #5 or someone even said if we're lucky a #7. He was better than that in the games he played for us so what do you even mean? those games were invalid?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

99% of CP: "+/- is a useless stat because of too many factors can skew the results"

The same 99%: "here's 11 different advanced stats, with only 20 games of data, that PROVE my interpretation of a player"

The other 1%: "only an oilers fan would disagree with my opinion"

Are you honestly seeing a line up of people that are suggesting anything after 20 games is proven?

I'm not.

[GioforPM]

a. Compared to the "11 different advanced stats", +/- is a useless stat, no matter what the sample size is. Hell, it's a crappy stat over a season.

b. All that was being proven with advanced stats was that Miromanov isn't sheltered as was suggested.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Are you honestly seeing a line up of people that are suggesting anything after 20 games is proven?

I'm not.

I'm seeing the same ppl spewing advanced stats like always. Then defending their points using those stats regardless of context.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

I'm seeing the same ppl spewing advanced stats like always. Then defending their points using those stats regardless of context.

I also find it weird and creepy when people use actual evidence to justify their thoughts on a player. It’s nasty.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

I'm seeing the same ppl spewing advanced stats like always. Then defending their points using those stats regardless of context.

What stats do you think show whether a player is being “sheltered”?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

I'm seeing the same ppl spewing advanced stats like always. Then defending their points using those stats regardless of context.

I've seen a huge share of sample size discussion with anyone positive on the player.

Who and what was out of context in a discussion about the value of a defenseman and how he's playing?

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I've seen a huge share of sample size discussion with anyone positive on the player.

Who and what was out of context in a discussion about the value of a defenseman and how he's playing?

Month to month defensive zone starts. Shot % when he's 1 of 10 players on the ice....stats like these are statistically useless and i understand why people use them. I don't see any value whatsoever compared to saying "he looks skilled but thinks slow". The who is everyone involved in the multi-page argument about zone stats....like they actually matter when looking at a single player.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

What stats do you think show whether a player is being “sheltered”?

The fact he's defense and doesn't play pk is enough to show he isn't on the ice for his defensive acumen. No advanced voodoo needed.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Month to month defensive zone starts. Shot % when he's 1 of 10 players on the ice....stats like these are statistically useless and i understand why people use them. I don't see any value whatsoever compared to saying "he looks skilled but thinks slow". The who is everyone involved in the multi-page argument about zone stats....like they actually matter when looking at a single player.

Someone said he was sheltered.

When that happens you look to zone starts to see if he was sheltered.

Maybe you're just a little touchy on the advancement of statistics in hockey? Because there is nothing "fancy" or "advanced" about someone counting how many face offs a player is on the ice for in the offensive zone compared to other zones.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Month to month defensive zone starts. Shot % when he's 1 of 10 players on the ice....stats like these are statistically useless and i understand why people use them. I don't see any value whatsoever compared to saying "he looks skilled but thinks slow". The who is everyone involved in the multi-page argument about zone stats....like they actually matter when looking at a single player.

He starts his shifts in his own zone more than the other dmen. While the stat may “statistically useless”, before we had the fancy stats teams often would throw out their best defensive pair for faceoffs in their own zone. I believe we can assume this practice has continued in the modern fancy stat age. Ergo Miromanov was on the defensive pair that the coaching staff felt was the strongest defensively.

[Bingo]

Here is the Flames defense this year sorted by % of ice time against elite opposition

Chris Tanev	43.2%
Noah Hanifin	42.5%
Mackenzie Weegar	36.0%
Rasmus Andersson	34.5%
Daniil Miromanov	31.3%
Ilya Solovyov	28.6%
Nikita Zadorov	28.5%
Dennis Gilbert	28.4%
Oliver Kylington	26.7%
Joel Hanley	26.2%
Brayden Pachal	23.5%
Jordan Oesterle	23.5%
Yan Kuznetsov	21.1%
Nick DeSimone	20.1%
Nikita Okhotiuk	9.1%

Top pairing moved.
Weegar and Miromanov become top four.

Sheltered would include everyone else including Zadorov.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Month to month defensive zone starts. Shot % when he's 1 of 10 players on the ice....stats like these are statistically useless and i understand why people use them. I don't see any value whatsoever compared to saying "he looks skilled but thinks slow". The who is everyone involved in the multi-page argument about zone stats....like they actually matter when looking at a single player.

I’m not sure you do understand why people use them. Someone said that the Flames played more in the defensive zone which is why Miro started more there, and the month-to-month stats were referenced to show that wasn’t true.

That’s it. Not some measure of Miro. Not some broad statement or argument. Literally just showing the truth of what actually happened.

I find it pretty bizarre when posters have such a hard rejection of “advanced” stats that they don’t even like them being used to show what happened without any extra commentary. It’s like people want hockey to stay dumb.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I’m not sure you do understand why people use them. Someone said that the Flames played more in the defensive zone which is why Miro started more there, and the month-to-month stats were referenced to show that wasn’t true.

That’s it. Not some measure of Miro. Not some broad statement or argument. Literally just showing the truth of what actually happened.

I find it pretty bizarre when posters have such a hard rejection of “advanced” stats that they don’t even like them being used to show what happened without any extra commentary. It’s like people want hockey to stay dumb.

I think some liked the old days when they could just defend an opinion about a player until the cows came home without any actual data to refute it.

Now we can just look something up, and to some degree, the data is improving and will get better ... just say "nope"

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think some liked the old days when they could just defend an opinion about a player until the cows came home without any actual data to refute it.

Now we can just look something up, and to some degree, the data is improving and will get better ... just say "nope"

Originally Posted by D as in David

This thread...

The first poster finally tires of this and another steps in to take their place. They must have me on ignore.

[Wastedyouth]

cannon7 seems to have ghosted us.

Wonder why.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

cannon7 seems to have ghosted us.

Wonder why.

Don't worry, if Miromanov doesn't pan out or takes a step back we'll get a thread bump.

It won't change the fact that he was wrong at this time, but there will still be gloating.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Don't worry, if Miromanov doesn't pan out or takes a step back we'll get a thread bump.

It won't change the fact that he was wrong at this time, but there will still be gloating.

That’s impossible. According to cannon, remembering something from six weeks ago is “mind blowing,” so we should assume he’ll never remember these conversations and would never gloat, else he might look like someone obsessive over conversations that happened months or years ago.

The best we can hope is that he figures out what DZS% means and how to find it. I don’t have a ton of hope but… maybe…

[Paulie Walnuts]

This isn’t even an advanced stat. It’s just part of coaching.

Matchups and zone starts lol.