China's Millionaire Migration

[Flash Walken]

Speaking of the migration aspect:

Health ministry investigators are aware of more than two dozen so-called birth houses in B.C. offering pregnant foreign mothers temporary room and board before and after giving birth in local hospitals, according to Freedom of Information documents obtained by Postmedia.

The baby houses, as they are called in Asia, are used by women seeking instant Canadian citizenship for their newborns.

The internal briefing document, titled Birth by Non-B.C. Residents, was created in response to a Vancouver Sun story last year about the three-fold increase since 2009 of non-resident births.

A department in Victoria called the Audit and Investigations Branch, Eligibility, Compliance and Enforcement Unit (ECEU) knows about 26 private residences offering hospitality services to foreign pregnant women. It said the residences are used by two groups.

The first includes those in Canada on a temporary resident document, such as a tourist visa, work or study permit. They come to deliver a baby “who by birth is then granted Canadian citizenship status.” They do not access Medical Services Plan-funded benefits and “they declare themselves as self-pay at hospitals and to doctors.”

The second category includes permanent residents properly enrolled in MSP, but at some point cease to meet the definition under the Medicare Protection Act. They return to their country of origin but remain enrolled in the MSP. They then return to B.C. to have a baby and since they still have MSP coverage, bills related to the mother and baby are billed to the plan. They stay long enough to obtain a birth certificate, a Canadian passport and enrolment in MSP for the baby before returning to their country of origin.

The ECEU conducts regular reviews of individuals who cease to meet the definition of a resident under the Medicare Protection Act, according to the documents. The next paragraphs were censored by government for fear of harm to law enforcement. The documents say the cost of non-resident births was $693,869.20 in the 2014-2015 fiscal year:

“The health authorities recover approximately 50 per cent of their amount outstanding, Pharmacare and MSP costs are recovered by the Ministry of Finance.”

Investigators have found no evidence of “forged or counterfeit” Care Cards or B.C. Services Cards, nor did they find evidence to warrant a referral to law enforcement.

Earlier this month, Postmedia reported 295 of the 1,938 babies born at Richmond Hospital for the year ended March 31 were delivered to foreign Chinese mothers. According to the documents, the number of non-resident births at Richmond Hospital “increased dramatically” beginning in 2011. Non-resident births at hospitals in the Vancouver Coastal Health (VCH) region account for 1.5 per cent of births, according to confidential briefing notes, but at the Richmond Hospital, they accounted for 15.22 per cent, based on the latest fiscal year statistics.

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-n...om-china-booms

[Drak]

Originally Posted by rubecube

The island is the next obvious stop if they're still wanting to buy in BC. The market here has been heating up as well. Obviously it's not as bad as Vancouver but houses in Victoria and Oak Bay are already out of reach for the average person here. I don't know why they just didn't slap the tax on all the notable spots where this is already or will shortly be a problem.

EDIT: Take a look at this. Again, not sustainable in the longterm.

http://www.vreb.org/current-statistics

Houses have gone up 200k in some areas like Broadmead. Outside of foreign investment, lots of folks are selling in Van and moving here with their winnings.

[Locke]

Sounds like they're trying to take over.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Drak

Houses have gone up 200k in some areas like Broadmead. Outside of foreign investment, lots of folks are selling in Van and moving here with their winnings.

Oh yeah there was some dude on the news who sold his place in Vancouver, got a massive place in Nanaimo, on the water, and bought a float plane so he could still commute to downtown Vancouver.

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Speaking of the migration aspect:



http://vancouversun.com/news/local-n...om-china-booms

I know so many people over here who have done this. Most go to the States though. I don't get why if you are born in a country while on a travel visa that has expired you get citizenship. Many countries don't have this policy. Canada and America are 2 of the few. It's time to change this or people will keep taking advantage of us.

[Harry Lime]

Even the idea of Baby Houses is disgusting. They should be treated the same as Crack Houses when uncovered. Full SWAT team raid.

[Drak]

What's sad is my house is a pile of garbage. It's a post war harry homeowner hack job with a poor foundation (no pun) and a few bad additions from the 70s and 90s, some sloping floors etc. It's really a knock down. When we bought it, it's what we could afford and I put a lot of work into fixing it up as best I could. But at the end of the day, it's lipstick on a pig. And it's worth way too much in this current market.

[Sluggo]

Well, It will be fun to watch the Canadian banks stock value drop in the next several months until the government props them back up. If Toronto takes similar measures the bubble has been popped and the politicians that did it are all to blame.

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Even the idea of Baby Houses is disgusting. They should be treated the same as Crack Houses when uncovered. Full SWAT team raid.

I read about one being shutdown in LA a while ago. The thing is most of the people who are doing this have a lot of money. It's not cheap for them. So I guess the government figures they will end up buying a house and contributing to the economy.

But most people get the kids passport then they keep living in China because that's where they work and make their money. They return to the states every year or two for vacation. Then when their kid gets older (university age, maybe high school) they move the whole family to the States and milk the system for welfare and whatever, meanwhile still have tons of cash hidden back in the mainland that they have access to. It is sickening, but if we aren't smart enough to stop it we only have ourselves to blame.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by rubecube

There's a difference between the steady stream during open season and the rush to get in while there's still a perception of money to save. There's no way to implement something like this without someone somewhere getting screwed but there are probably less people being screwed by a quick implementation than there would have been by an influx of buyers trying to get in under the wire.

This is horrible implementation, period.
They could have had it effective immediately to avoid a rush of purchases, but not effective on contracts already in place.

The fact that it's retroactive is insane.
People have made purchase decisions with taxes in mind and are now subject to tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands in extra cash expense.
Locals are getting into major problems with deals not closing now and this will effect a lot more people than the "billionaire Chinese investor" everyone is upset with.

The idea of retroactive tax amounts sets a very dangerous precident as well.
What about local buyers who are wanting to purchase their first home and decide on a presale condo?
We now have no certainly on what their closing taxes will be. Who's to say Christy won't implement a 10% transfer tax on all purchases between now and their completion date?
They have made it clear now that taxes are floating and buyers will have no certainly when making major financial decisions.

[MillerTime GFG]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

This is horrible implementation, period.
They could have had it effective immediately to avoid a rush of purchases, but not effective on contracts already in place.

The fact that it's retroactive is insane.
People have made purchase decisions with taxes in mind and are now subject to tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands in extra cash expense.
Locals are getting into major problems with deals not closing now and this will effect a lot more people than the "billionaire Chinese investor" everyone is upset with.

The idea of retroactive tax amounts sets a very dangerous precident as well.
What about local buyers who are wanting to purchase their first home and decide on a presale condo?
We now have no certainly on what their closing taxes will be. Who's to say Christy won't implement a 10% transfer tax on all purchases between now and their completion date?
They have made it clear now that taxes are floating and buyers will have no certainly when making major financial decisions.

Thanks, I had forgotten to reply to that comment. My thoughts were the same - it could have been implemented immediately, but not including existing transactions.

There are some locals that will get screwed by this, and they are the very people this tax is supposed to protect.

[Flash Walken]

The idea that the tax is retroactive is further indication that for the province this is all about the money and has nothing to do with attempting to regulate the housing market.

[Locke]

Retroactive taxation is pretty much without exception a terrible policy.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Target of the New Tax

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

Let's say you live in Vancouver. You just purchased a place for 1.5M and waived financing condition, because you have a firm sale on your previous residence that you sold for 1M. Now that buyer has walked on the deal, so you no longer have a firm sale on your previous home. Your mortgage on your new place has a condition that it's subject to a firm sale on your previous home, as your income isn't enough to carry both debts. You're now scrambling.

As far as I'm aware and it is likely not quite this simple, but if there is a firm sale on your house (ie: conditions removed) and the buyer walks away from it, you still get the deposit. I also believe the deposit is usually at least 5% ($50k on $1MM), which should more than cover any debts until the next sale.

[MillerTime GFG]

Originally Posted by calculoso

As far as I'm aware and it is likely not quite this simple, but if there is a firm sale on your house (ie: conditions removed) and the buyer walks away from it, you still get the deposit. I also believe the deposit is usually at least 5% ($50k on $1MM), which should more than cover any debts until the next sale.

Yes, you are right that you can keep the deposit if conditions have been waived, but chances are you have also waived conditions on the purchase of your new place, which means you would be liable for your deposit as well. Assuming you're trading up (which most do), your deposit out will be more than the one in. It may force people to stay in their current home if they can't find a new buyer.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

This is horrible implementation, period.
They could have had it effective immediately to avoid a rush of purchases, but not effective on contracts already in place.

The fact that it's retroactive is insane.
People have made purchase decisions with taxes in mind and are now subject to tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands in extra cash expense.
Locals are getting into major problems with deals not closing now and this will effect a lot more people than the "billionaire Chinese investor" everyone is upset with.

The idea of retroactive tax amounts sets a very dangerous precident as well.
What about local buyers who are wanting to purchase their first home and decide on a presale condo?
We now have no certainly on what their closing taxes will be. Who's to say Christy won't implement a 10% transfer tax on all purchases between now and their completion date?
They have made it clear now that taxes are floating and buyers will have no certainly when making major financial decisions.

Yeah, sorry, I meant the immediate implementation had to be done. I don't get the retroactive tax at all.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

It may force people to stay in their current home if they can't find a new buyer.

[MillerTime GFG]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Maybe try putting yourself in their shoes rather than judge from a distance. I'm sure your stance would be different.

Every thread Rube, every thread...

[MillerTime GFG]

Anyways, my original point was the tax shouldn't be retroactive, which you now

Yeah, sorry, I meant the immediate implementation had to be done. I don't get the retroactive tax at all.

apparently agree with.