China's Millionaire Migration

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

No, I meant with the foreign buyers...

I know to buy in the EU a foreign buyer needs to incorporate. But I have also heard stories of people going through all the red tape to buy a property just to have the person at the end of the line tell them "no". No reason given or required... just a simple "no", we don't think it's a good fit.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

No, I meant with the foreign buyers...

We're clearly at the high point of a massive bubble, if the market takes the 40 or 50 point drop its due that fixes it.

It would also help if interest rates got back up to normal 5 or 6 percent rates, low interest rates kill first time buyers while benefiting those already in the market.

[CliffFletcher]

Lots of foreigners want to buy property in Switzerland, but they make it very difficulty. But they're a country that has coherent long-term priorities, rather than just doing whatever looks like it will make the most money over the next 3-5 years.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by peter12

This is why the "we need more condos" is a bit of a joke, and obviously serves interests that would profit.

You need single-detached homes to raise a family. The numbers here are indisputable.

This is a very entitled comment. The single family home with a piece of land is a very rural or post depression concept. Lots of people raise families without SFH's. Its pretty insulting to call this a need.

When kids sharing a bedroom is considered a terrible burden part of our problem is that we grew up subsidized without paying the true costs for the things we had.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by GGG

This is a very entitled comment. The single family home with a piece of land is a very rural or post depression concept. Lots of people raise families without SFH's. Its pretty insulting to call this a need.

When kids sharing a bedroom is considered a terrible burden part of our problem is that we grew up subsidized without paying the true costs for the things we had.

Yup, this was discussed in one of the financial threads. Your first house is not your last house. Even dual lawyers should start below 500K. The rest of us below 250K.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GGG

This is a very entitled comment. The single family home with a piece of land is a very rural or post depression concept. Lots of people raise families without SFH's. Its pretty insulting to call this a need.

When kids sharing a bedroom is considered a terrible burden part of our problem is that we grew up subsidized without paying the true costs for the things we had.

True. But the point stands that most Canadians will not start a family until they can afford a detached home, and they'll move far away from where they work in order to find a detached home they can afford.

[Flamenspiel]

Well its not a unique problem in Canada, and they are starting to do the things that they did in some of the other jurisdictions. HK, Singapore, Sydney all have imposed 15 percent taxes, the money is basically moving in the direction of the lowest taxes and loosest money. HK and Singapore started first, then Sydney and now Vancouver. Vancouver money is already moving to Toronto. The Ontario liberals are already talking about various measures to stop it.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

True. But the point stands that most Canadians will not start a family until they can afford a detached home, and they'll move far away from where they work in order to find a detached home they can afford.

and then those most Canadians will complain about people with kids living in small houses as 'taking in baby cheques".

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Yup, this was discussed in one of the financial threads. Your first house is not your last house. Even dual lawyers should start below 500K. The rest of us below 250K.

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but in situations where no sub 250k properties are available are you just saying that people shouldn't have properties? That's kind of the issue we are dealing with here. What do you do when there are no properties available, because the prices are so high.

We have a situation, where due to foreign investment, property prices have become detached from the means of people within the market.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by blankall

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but in situations where no sub 250k properties are available are you just saying that people shouldn't have properties? That's kind of the issue we are dealing with here. What do you do when there are no properties available, because the prices are so high.

We have a situation, where due to foreign investment, property prices have become detached from the means of people within the market.

In my experience most people from outisde vancouver simply do not believe there aren't 250k places.

It's so hard to believe that people outside of the market don't actually believe it and say things like "in my day you bought a starter home" or "you have to start small to build equity."

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by blankall

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but in situations where no sub 250k properties are available are you just saying that people shouldn't have properties? That's kind of the issue we are dealing with here. What do you do when there are no properties available, because the prices are so high.

We have a situation, where due to foreign investment, property prices have become detached from the means of people within the market.

Yeah did a quick search Vancouver looks bad. Lots of condos for under 300K but houses? forget it. Condo might be a good place to start for a few years.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

In my experience most people from outisde vancouver simply do not believe there aren't 250k places.

It's so hard to believe that people outside of the market don't actually believe it and say things like "in my day you bought a starter home" or "you have to start small to build equity."

You get the same attitude from people outside of the GTA. They think people move to the suburbs because they want a picket fence and yard. The reality is, the lower and middle classes are being chased out by prices.

[GirlySports]

250K was my made up number, it could be higher than that, but not too much higher.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Yeah did a quick search Vancouver looks bad. Lots of condos for under 300K but houses? forget it. Condo might be a good place to start for a few years.

K....then how do you make the jump up? You are tied to a condo with large mortgage. A decent sized 2 bedroom condo is going to cost $400k, and that's in the suburbs. In Vancouver proper a condo above 600 sq feet is going to run closer to $600k.

The issue is that the price of detached homes and even townhouses have now outpaced the condo growth. So while you are holding onto that condo and paying down the mortgage, you are actually falling further behind. 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

The problem with your suggestions is that they only hold true in markets being driven by internal forces. Where people can get jobs in line with the real estate prices. Foreign investment has made that impossible.

[afc wimbledon]

There are 250,000 apartments and townhouses, again you are out in Maple Ridge or Pitt Meadows but that's not some Detroit hell hole! There are worse places to live.

Again I ain't saying it's cheap, I've told my daughter that if she's happy in Halifax she'd be nuts to move back to Vancouver but if you have to or want to live in the area it's do'able.

I also disagree that it's due to foriegn buyers, that's a small part of it but it's low interest rates and stupid buyers that are causing most of it, locals, once they're in the market don't seem to care what they pay as the money is essentially free to borrow and the idiots here think that it's just going to keep rising forever, I'm in east Van, we don't have any foriegn buyers, just a bunch of hipsters that are all using equity to buy new beamers and ducattis.

Trying to get a quote on a bathroom reno is proving a nightmare for me, builders are quoting 40 or 50,000 for a standard small bathroom job, when you push back on the price their answer is 'why do you care the money's free and your house is worth a million?' it's a market that is primed for a huge crash.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by blankall

K....then how do you make the jump up? You are tied to a condo with large mortgage. A decent sized 2 bedroom condo is going to cost $400k, and that's in the suburbs. In Vancouver proper a condo above 600 sq feet is going to run closer to $600k.

The issue is that the price of detached homes and even townhouses have now outpaced the condo growth. So while you are holding onto that condo and paying down the mortgage, you are actually falling further behind. 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

The problem with your suggestions is that they only hold true in markets being driven by internal forces. Where people can get jobs in line with the real estate prices. Foreign investment has made that impossible.

To be fair, Canadians and other Western countries have been doing this to third world countries for a long time. Many locals Central American countries can't get into their local real estate market because of all the Americans and Canadians that buy up the properties and raise the market prices.

While I am all for curtailing the problem in Canada, I am also one of those Canadians who is interested in owning a piece of foreign property and recognize the hypocrisy.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

There are 250,000 apartments and townhouses, again you are out in Maple Ridge or Pitt Meadows but that's not some Detroit hell hole! There are worse places to live.

Again I ain't saying it's cheap, I've told my daughter that if she's happy in Halifax she'd be nuts to move back to Vancouver but if you have to or want to live in the area it's do'able.

I also disagree that it's due to foriegn buyers, that's a small part of it but it's low interest rates and stupid buyers that are causing most of it, locals, once they're in the market don't seem to care what they pay as the money is essentially free to borrow and the idiots here think that it's just going to keep rising forever, I'm in east Van, we don't have any foriegn buyers, just a bunch of hipsters that are all using equity to buy new beamers and ducattis.

Trying to get a quote on a bathroom reno is proving a nightmare for me, builders are quoting 40 or 50,000 for a standard small bathroom job, when you push back on the price their answer is 'why do you care the money's free and your house is worth a million?' it's a market that is primed for a huge crash.

Much of this is very true. It is not solely on foreign buyers but what has been happening lately, past year or so is. Many mid to high end homes are purchased and sold multiple times in a year and are never lived in. A house that sold for $2.5mil is back on the market in 3 months at $2.8mil. At least locals are looking for homes to live in and not just a quick investment to flip. There's a block not far from where I live in Burnaby that has 6 homes that are less then 2 years old that have never been lived in. Between the 6 they have been sold 8 times since the initial purchase. Stuff like that is nuts.

Yes, you can live farther out but if you work downtown the commutes can be killer but lots of people do do this. I had chances to move out to maple Ridge but we decided that being able to get our kids to their activities and not relying on babysitters and daycares to work past 6pm was more important. We love the location we are in, have plenty of space and the kids love it there with lots of other kids to play with. I wouldn't say we sacrificed anything as we love it there but we don't own and that has it's drawbacks.

There are starter family homes that you could argue are $1mil over priced. Even a 50% reduction brings a small 3 bedroom home down to the $700K range. Those are still incredibly high numbers.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

There are 250,000 apartments and townhouses, again you are out in Maple Ridge or Pitt Meadows but that's not some Detroit hell hole! There are worse places to live.

Okay but if you're trying to give people an incentive to start a family, a 3 hour daily commute schedule isn't the best way to do it.

[GirlySports]

how is east vancouver, lots of immigrants start there?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

how is east vancouver, lots of immigrants start there?

Average price of a somewhat run down detached home on a bad lot in East Vancouver is probably around 1.5 million....that's the issue. Although things do look to be sliding the last couple of months. There are a few homes on the market in the 1.3 million range that look livable without having to put another $200k+ into them.