Westworld: New original HBO series

[Fuzz]

But does it make any sense? Clearly they are building towards Delores finding the maze, and White hat probably with her. So if he is the MIB, has he been hunting for 30 years?

More likely we are going to see MIB meet White hat and Delores at or in the maze. Maybe they'll shoot each other.

[Stud_McCool]

That maze looks like something found on a kids menu. I could figure it out in like 30 minutes... tops. Not 30 years like that MIB doofus.

[Fuzz]

It doesn't even work as a maze. I mean, you enter it, and bam. Crotch. No where else to go. You are there, man. The rest of it is just superfluous.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

I'm assuming Arnold would be in that gap in the photo, but he's been thoroughly erased by Delos. Well, except for his voice speaking to some of the hosts, apparently. But mostly thoroughly erased.

Maybe Arnold is actually his father.

[getbak]

If Bernard is a robot version of Arnold, Robert might have shown him the picture as a test.

The photo could be of Ford and Arnold with the robot of Ford's father, but Bernard's programming is designed for him to ignore Arnold, much like when Dolores saw the modern photograph and said that it looked like nothing at all.

If Bernard had recognized himself in the photo, Ford would have known that he was breaking his programming. When he didn't see Arnold, Ford knew he was okay.

If Bernard does start to become self-aware, he'll probably go find that photo again, but this time, he'll see Arnold and that will confirm that he's a robot.




The "old" Westworld logo made another appearance this week, again on something old. When Bernard booted up the old computer system, the old logo was on the login screen.

So, now that version of the logo has appeared 3 times on the show: On the Welcome screen when William first arrives; on the lab coat of the techs in Ford's story about the early days developing the park; and now on the old computer system.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It doesn't even work as a maze. I mean, you enter it, and bam. Crotch. No where else to go. You are there, man. The rest of it is just superfluous.

I doubt the maze looks anything like this / nor is it a "maze" in the way we think of a maze

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I doubt the maze looks anything like this / nor is it a "maze" in the way we think of a maze

I always thought the picture was not so much a maze but a brain with the hosts at the center. This would mean more that the picture symbolizes consciousness of the hosts and the bicameral mind.

[Since1984]

I was thinking about all this, and haven't really followed this thread but I feel the McPoyle Story line tells the tale of the big problems 30 years earlier and the MIB Story line is the current story.

We get confirmation of the two story lines when Bernard travels to the lower levels and needs to access the old computer system with the old West World logo, which was seen at the beginning of the the McPoyle Story.

Everything that is happening with Ford and Bernard occurs with the new logo. Now to find out if Arnold really did transfer his consciousness into one or all the hosts like that terrible Johnny Depp film.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Now that a timeline theory is looking more and more likely, I'm curious what role McPoyle plays in all this.

is he the young MIB? Is this important because it is a Delores origin story? Presumably in a future episode we will see the storylines converge and something from the past will affect the current storyline. Also I'm sure Arnold, Elsie, Bernard, Ford, Maeve etc will all play into it.

Still have 4 more episodes to go too. Feels like we are way more than 60% into the season.

EDIT: Couple of other thoughts.

What was the deal with the cannibal dudes in the mountains who wore the hoods? Was that just confined to that episode and storyline within the park, or is there something more going on there?

What's the deal with the lower levels looking like they've been totally destroyed?

Anyone else think that the host in the background of the lower level scene with Bernard looked like Yul Brenner? I can't find a pic.

EDIT2: Apparently I'm not the only one:

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Now that a timeline theory is looking more and more likely, I'm curious what role McPoyle plays in all this.

is he the young MIB? Is this important because it is a Delores origin story? Presumably in a future episode we will see the storylines converge and something from the past will affect the current storyline. Also I'm sure Arnold, Elsie, Bernard, Ford, Maeve etc will all play into it.

Still have 4 more episodes to go too. Feels like we are way more than 60% into the season.

EDIT: Couple of other thoughts.

What was the deal with the cannibal dudes in the mountains who wore the hoods? Was that just confined to that episode and storyline within the park, or is there something more going on there?

What's the deal with the lower levels looking like they've been totally destroyed?

Anyone else think that the host in the background of the lower level scene with Bernard looked like Yul Brenner? I can't find a pic.

EDIT2: Apparently I'm not the only one:

The cannibals in the mountains were referenced in the episode that had Delores' Dad go all wonky. He played the Leader of the Cannibals Cult or whatever. So I think this too points to a two timeline story.

[Cappy]

I believe the cannibals are back next week judging by the preview.

If the dual timeline theory is present (I hope it isn't) then I would hazard to say the man in black is Logan which seems to suit the story more.

Besides the fact that he is wearing all black and a big player at whatever job he works at, he also has some distaste for Dolores, or atleast indifference. Also, the MiB said he helped save the park during first failure - could be either by stopping Dolores from getting there, or even by cash injection as mentioned.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I believe the cannibals are back next week judging by the preview.

If the dual timeline theory is present (I hope it isn't) then I would hazard to say the man in black is Logan which seems to suit the story more.

Besides the fact that he is wearing all black and a big player at whatever job he works at, he also has some distaste for Dolores, or atleast indifference. Also, the MiB said he helped save the park during first failure - could be either by stopping Dolores from getting there, or even by cash injection as mentioned.

I was thinking about that too. Maybe Delores' actions or William's affection for her result in William's death. Logan was unsympathetic towards the hosts to begin with, this could cement that view.

[polak]

Originally Posted by getbak

The photo could be of Ford and Arnold with the robot of Ford's father, but Bernard's programming is designed for him to ignore Arnold, much like when Dolores saw the modern photograph and said that it looked like nothing at all.

I like this explanation. They also mentioned that the park doesn't allow the hosts intelligence to be turned up above 14 so Bernard is probably a host that has his turned all the way up.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Cappy

If the dual timeline theory is present (I hope it isn't) then I would hazard to say the man in black is Logan which seems to suit the story more.

Besides the fact that he is wearing all black and a big player at whatever job he works at, he also has some distaste for Dolores, or atleast indifference. Also, the MiB said he helped save the park during first failure - could be either by stopping Dolores from getting there, or even by cash injection as mentioned.

For one thing, there's no physical resemblance between Logan and the MIB like there is with William. The MIB and William both have light hair and blue eyes. Logan has dark hair and dark eyes.

Also, from a storytelling perspective, it would be more interesting to watch the transition over the years from good-guy William to bad-guy MIB (assuming they continue with the multiple timelines in future seasons). Seeing Logan transition from a young jerk to an old bitter man has less intrigue.

[Tinordi]

Anyone find it coincidental that Ford just happened to be in the house where the undocumented hosts were living when Bernard showed up?

Could it be that a Ford host was also just hanging out there for the specific purpose of dismissing any suspicion should someone from the park show up?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Anyone find it coincidental that Ford just happened to be in the house where the undocumented hosts were living when Bernard showed up?

Could it be that a Ford host was also just hanging out there for the specific purpose of dismissing any suspicion should someone from the park show up?

I don't think it was a coincidence at all. It's already been established that Ford knows everything that everyone is doing both inside and outside the park.

Since that part of the park is supposed to be out of service, he likely would have set an alarm to alert himself if anyone was accessing the area, and he also probably has his own backdoor into the area that allowed him to get there before Bernard.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by getbak

For one thing, there's no physical resemblance between Logan and the MIB like there is with William. The MIB and William both have light hair and blue eyes. Logan has dark hair and dark eyes.

Also, from a storytelling perspective, it would be more interesting to watch the transition over the years from good-guy William to bad-guy MIB (assuming they continue with the multiple timelines in future seasons). Seeing Logan transition from a young jerk to an old bitter man has less intrigue.

I think from a story-telling perspective, the two timelines is a horrible way to tell the story; so me commenting on who the MiB is, is more of a tongue-in-cheek (that doesn't mean i don't think it won't happen, I just feel like it doesn't need to happen to make this story good)

what happens next? we don't see the transition at all, we see 30 years ago, some big event, and then boom, A-hole?

Do we see the inbetween where William later learns to fall in love with the intricities of the park in a deep and somewhat despotic way? what brings about his search for the maze or arnold 30 years in the future? what was he doing there the last few visits, just raping people? If these stories don't get flushed out, its bad story-telling, and if they do, then how?


Also, why does the MiB have to be William? It would be much better for telling the story if they were two different people, but still in two separate storylines. This would help solve some of the inconsistencies as well as limit the pigeon-holing of the narrative for the next few seasons.

maybe the dynamic seen between Logan and William is just meant to be a reflection of the relationship between Arnold and Ford. William sees the hosts as something more, just as Arnold did, while Logan and Ford seem to view the hosts as nothing more than machines.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I think from a story-telling perspective, the two timelines is a horrible way to tell the story; so me commenting on who the MiB is, is more of a tongue-in-cheek (that doesn't mean i don't think it won't happen, I just feel like it doesn't need to happen to make this story good)

what happens next? we don't see the transition at all, we see 30 years ago, some big event, and then boom, A-hole?

Do we see the inbetween where William later learns to fall in love with the intricities of the park in a deep and somewhat despotic way? what brings about his search for the maze or arnold 30 years in the future? what was he doing there the last few visits, just raping people? If these stories don't get flushed out, its bad story-telling, and if they do, then how?


Also, why does the MiB have to be William? It would be much better for telling the story if they were two different people, but still in two separate storylines. This would help solve some of the inconsistencies as well as limit the pigeon-holing of the narrative for the next few seasons.

maybe the dynamic seen between Logan and William is just meant to be a reflection of the relationship between Arnold and Ford. William sees the hosts as something more, just as Arnold did, while Logan and Ford seem to view the hosts as nothing more than machines.

I think it is way too early to tell if the timeline thing is a good or bad idea.

When it was proposed after episode 2? 3? I kept asking, why? I had/have more faith in this show than to use a bunch of Lost style mysteries that the writers have no idea how to conclude and are just doing it because of the tension it creates.

At the end of the day, if the timeline thing turns out to be more than just a shocking twist and it serves the story and the characters, then go for it.

If it turns out to be a total failure and is incredibly stupid and was done just for shock value then obviously that will not bode well for the show.

Right now, I have no reason to believe it is dumb. However I still don't entirely understand what the point is, I just have no reason to yet believe that it makes the show bad.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I think it is way too early to tell if the timeline thing is a good or bad idea.

When it was proposed after episode 2? 3? I kept asking, why? I had/have more faith in this show than to use a bunch of Lost style mysteries that the writers have no idea how to conclude and are just doing it because of the tension it creates.

At the end of the day, if the timeline thing turns out to be more than just a shocking twist and it serves the story and the characters, then go for it.

If it turns out to be a total failure and is incredibly stupid and was done just for shock value then obviously that will not bode well for the show.

Right now, I have no reason to believe it is dumb. However I still don't entirely understand what the point is, I just have no reason to yet believe that it makes the show bad.

I don't think they are going for the "shocking twist" angle with the timeline theory. They've made it too obvious for that. At this point it would be more of a twist if we're in one timeline.

I will agree, that how good that reveal is will depend on execution though.

As for the point, it adds more depth to the characters now, if we know their backstory and the backstory of the park. It also adds more to the interactions and dialogue of the characters if things they say or do in one timeline have more meaning in another. This is especially true as the cast, for the most part, does not age and we have no idea if they are conscious or not. It, therefore, makes perfect sense to have the show cross over many years.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by blankall

I don't think they are going for the "shocking twist" angle with the timeline theory. They've made it too obvious for that. At this point it would be more of a twist if we're in one timeline.

I will agree, that how good that reveal is will depend on execution though.

As for the point, it adds more depth to the characters now, if we know their backstory and the backstory of the park. It also adds more to the interactions and dialogue of the characters if things they say or do in one timeline have more meaning in another. This is especially true as the cast, for the most part, does not age and we have no idea if they are conscious or not. It, therefore, makes perfect sense to have the show cross over many years.

Yeah I didn't mean i don't understand the point of telling the story. I meant that no one knows where the story is going.

If we get to the end and William tries to have sex with Delores and she turns him down and laughs at his small penis and that turns out to be the motivation for him turning to the MIB and helping Arnold take down the park, I'm gonna be pretty disappointed.

I'm also not confused as to why the story might be told over many years. Understanding the characters motivations and desires makes perfect sense. It is now up to the show to make sure that the timeline theory reveals all that in such a way that makes it relevant and interesting.

If it turns out their interactions and motivations have no meaning then the timeline thing won't be good tv.