Nhl says no to jersey ads - and $120m windfall

[Arsonist22]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Is it though? Everyone keeps saying this, but I recall us having this discussion a decade ago (and probably in the 90s too).

Personally I think $4M is way too low of an amount for a team to risk diminishing it's brand. Relegating your own logo to secondary-status is a great way to water-down your brand equity.

$120m is definitely too low. Manchester united's deal with Chevrolet is worth $79.85m on its own, and Qatar airways pays $45m to put their names on barcelona's shirts. This isn't going to happen unless the league stands to gain considerably more than $120m

[polak]

Originally Posted by Arsonist22

$120m is definitely too low. Manchester united's deal with Chevrolet is worth $79.85m on its own, and Qatar airways pays $45m to put their names on barcelona's shirts. This isn't going to happen unless the league stands to gain considerably more than $120m

No NHL team has nearly the same brand recognition as either of those teams. If Barcelona only got 45 than 4 million for the Flames sounds about right.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by polak

If it's well done like it is on Soccer Jerseys then fine, that's inevitible. Notice how most have a text logo with maybe a small design logo? That I can totally live with.

If it's something stupid like the Golden Arches replacing the flaming C then I might puke...

You mean like this?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Which is really the only point. Everyone coming in here talking about all the lost jersey sales and speaking in absolutes about what they will or won't do as it comes buying jersey's if the NHL adds corporate logo are simply in no position to make that statement, even when it comes to themselves.

Please do not be so arrogant as to think that you can speak for me and my intentions, either today or into the future.

That said, I agree that if the NHL sneaks a small ad on which grows over time into the kind of embarrassment soccer jerseys have become that most people would just follow the other sheep. But I will not buy a Flames jersey with paid advertising on it. Not now, not in the future, not ever.

[UKflames]

I am sorry fellow flames fans but i shall laugh my ass off the day that the NHL agrees to adverts on team jerseys. There are so many NA hockey fans that are so up themselves that their team couldn't possibly need/want adverts on their jerseys and look how stupid the European hockey teams look, let alone the soccer teams. Well sorry but we need those ads for the sport to survive, not all leagues have uber rich team owners, without the cash from those adverts teams die, the sport dies in Europe/rest of the world and a source of NHL players dries up as well. Maybe you want the NHL with US & Canadian players only but that is what you would end up with.

Time to realise that the NHL to us is entertainment but to the teams and the league it is a business, and no matter how superior you think the NHL is to the rest of the hockey world, money talks and will talk and you will end up with ads on NHL shirts like the rest of the hockey world. Welcome to the real world.

Sorry about the rant but the holier than thou attitude of some NHL fans does annoy me.

[Flames89]

Originally Posted by UKflames

blah blah blah

When you have to pay $200 per seat to see your team live and pay $200/season to see them on TV, you may not want to see more ads marring up what you believe to be an iconic jersey.

[driveway]

I'm stealing this point from Jeff Marek, but I think it's a good one. The people who are going to start pushing for advertising on uniforms will be the player's union. They're tired of giving up 15% in escrow, ads on uniforms will go into Hockey Related Revenue, and go a significant way towards reducing the amount of money players have to give up.

I think that ads on uniforms is inevitable. It'll likely start in the NBA, and the NHL will be second. I don't think, however, that we're ever going to see full-chest logos in hockey simply because of the existence and prominence of the hockey logo.

In basketball and baseball there are wordmarks of either the team nickname or the city name across the front of the jersey. It's not that big a step from 'Celtics' to 'TD BankNorth' or 'San Francisco' to 'AT&T.'

But taking, say, the spoked B off of the Bruins, or the Shark from the Sharks is a much, much bigger step and the ... cult ... for lack of a better word that is built up around hockey logos is pretty much unique in major sport.

I envision a future of ads for shoulder-patches, and no one whining about it. And also I envision Resolute 14 sitting at home in a darkened room unstitching the British Petroleum flowers off the shoulders of his brand-new Mark Giordano Jr. number 55 jersey.

[UKflames]

Originally Posted by Flames89

When you have to pay $200 per seat to see your team live and pay $200/season to see them on TV, you may not want to see more ads marring up what you believe to be an iconic jersey.

(Just to caveat what I am about to say, as forum speak can be misread, the following is not written with any anger or malice purely as a discussion.)

Do you think that you are the only sports fan that pays a lot of money to go and watch their favourite team, try getting a ticket to many of the top premiership football matches (not that I like soccer), do you think you are the only sports fan that pays high prices to watch their favourite team on TV (I pay for GCL and a VPN to ensure I don't get any flames games blacked out and SKY sports to watch soccer is a second mortgage) does that mean that we like ads on jerseys, no, but they are a fact of life. Yes the jersey is iconic, every fan of every team of every sport would argue that but sometimes NHL fans forget how lucky they are to have mega rich owners that have kept you in a sheltered world where adverts on jerseys are not needed, but the rest of the world is not like that and eventually you will join the reality that is the rest of the sporting world outside of NA.

As a side note I wouldn't expect them to put them on the front, they will go on the back as players bend over so much at face offs that is what the camera see's, no good having them on the front when the camera cannot see them

[Hockeyguy15]

What does the highest paid soccer player make? What is the average salary of a team? What is the average size of the stadium?

Compare that to the NHL and while I don't have the numbers, I imagine all of those are much higher for soccer. You say owners aren't rich and you need the ad revenue to survive, if that is infact true then maybe there is something wrong with the way the sport is being run?

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by UKflames

(Just to caveat what I am about to say, as forum speak can be misread, the following is not written with any anger or malice purely as a discussion.)

Do you think that you are the only sports fan that pays a lot of money to go and watch their favourite team, try getting a ticket to many of the top premiership football matches (not that I like soccer), do you think you are the only sports fan that pays high prices to watch their favourite team on TV (I pay for GCL and a VPN to ensure I don't get any flames games blacked out and SKY sports to watch soccer is a second mortgage) does that mean that we like ads on jerseys, no, but they are a fact of life. Yes the jersey is iconic, every fan of every team of every sport would argue that but sometimes NHL fans forget how lucky they are to have mega rich owners that have kept you in a sheltered world where adverts on jerseys are not needed, but the rest of the world is not like that and eventually you will join the reality that is the rest of the sporting world outside of NA.

As a side note I wouldn't expect them to put them on the front, they will go on the back as players bend over so much at face offs that is what the camera see's, no good having them on the front when the camera cannot see them

I don't think it's the uber rich owners protecting the fans. I do think if they were paid enough money they would do it but 4m per team is just not enough to offset the known backlash from fans/loss of jersey sales/eroding of integrity and tradition. When the money is more significant, they will do it but 4m per year isn't nearly enough to take the risk, they are the uber rich after all. What is that #? I don't know but I bet it's a hell of a lot higher than 0.3% of HRR. I do agree with the poster who basically said that the NHLPA would be pushing for it at some point.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by driveway

I'm stealing this point from Jeff Marek, but I think it's a good one. The people who are going to start pushing for advertising on uniforms will be the player's union. They're tired of giving up 15% in escrow, ads on uniforms will go into Hockey Related Revenue, and go a significant way towards reducing the amount of money players have to give up.

If Marek and/or the PA thinks this will make a difference in the escrow, they are deluded. The players's 50% share represents the midpoint of the cap, not the top or bottom. The only thing that is going to reduce escrow payments in the long term is to bring the median payrolls closer to the midpoint. Adding new revenue streams will not accomplish this as the cap, midpoint and floor will inevitably rise to match.

Ultimately, I agree that the players union will want this, because it means another $60 million in their pockets.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by UKflames

I am sorry fellow flames fans but i shall laugh my ass off the day that the NHL agrees to adverts on team jerseys. There are so many NA hockey fans that are so up themselves that their team couldn't possibly need/want adverts on their jerseys and look how stupid the European hockey teams look, let alone the soccer teams. Well sorry but we need those ads for the sport to survive, not all leagues have uber rich team owners, without the cash from those adverts teams die, the sport dies in Europe/rest of the world and a source of NHL players dries up as well. Maybe you want the NHL with US & Canadian players only but that is what you would end up with.

Time to realise that the NHL to us is entertainment but to the teams and the league it is a business, and no matter how superior you think the NHL is to the rest of the hockey world, money talks and will talk and you will end up with ads on NHL shirts like the rest of the hockey world. Welcome to the real world.

Sorry about the rant but the holier than thou attitude of some NHL fans does annoy me.

I understand why Junior A hockey teams put advertising on their uniforms. And I understand why a soccer team on the fifth level of England's pyramid would do so.

But please. Top level teams do not need to plaster the names of multinational corporations on their chests to survive. That argument is disingenuous. They choose to become moving billboards so that they can make more money.

[UKflames]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I understand why Junior A hockey teams put advertising on their uniforms. And I understand why a soccer team on the fifth level of England's pyramid would do so.

But please. Top level teams do not need to plaster the names of multinational corporations on their chests to survive. That argument is disingenuous. They choose to become moving billboards so that they can make more money.

Oh yes they do, why do you think UEFA have had to put rules in place to stop teams operating at a loss, and I am not talking about lower division teams I am talking about teams in the English premiership, Spain, Italy everywhere. They are only just living within their means because they pay the top players the top money, they need all of the income they can get.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by UKflames

Oh yes they do, why do you think UEFA have had to put rules in place to stop teams operating at a loss, and I am not talking about lower division teams I am talking about teams in the English premiership, Spain, Italy everywhere. They are only just living within their means because they pay the top players the top money, they need all of the income they can get.

So a lot like pre-lockout NHL, euro soccer teams can't manage their money properly without being forced to? Why would an influx of tens of millions of dollars help? Wouldn't they just waste that on even higher player salaries? Or is it these 'rules that prevent teams from operating at a loss' prevent the mismanagement of funds? Wouldn't these rules still work without the extra $$$ from jersey ads? Or do the 'rules' and ads work together in some way? Honestly curious. Face it, these teams/owners want the money because they like getting richer... it's not to 'survive' IMO.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

If Marek and/or the PA thinks this will make a difference in the escrow, they are deluded. The players's 50% share represents the midpoint of the cap, not the top or bottom. The only thing that is going to reduce escrow payments in the long term is to bring the median payrolls closer to the midpoint. Adding new revenue streams will not accomplish this as the cap, midpoint and floor will inevitably rise to match.

Ultimately, I agree that the players union will want this, because it means another $60 million in their pockets.

I had to go read a bunch of the CBA to understand what you were talking about, but yeah, you're right.

If anyone else is as drunk and lost as me re: what he's talking about, the relevant sections are (I think), 50.4 (d)(iv)(A)(1,2,3) - Page 255. And then 50.5 (a,b) pages 257-260.

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/CBA...A_2013_CBA.pdf

Jesus wept, I come home drunk on a Friday in September and read the NHL CBA in the hope that I can fight someone on the internet. ... Where's that drunkpuck thread at?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

But please. Top level teams do not need to plaster the names of multinational corporations on their chests to survive. That argument is disingenuous. They choose to become moving billboards so that they can make more money.

How do you know that teams don't need to have advertising on them to survive? Honest question, is there a study or a report, because I think that they do need these monies to survive. The contracts in some sports (ie: soccer) are extreme. I struggle to believe that they can fund on these contracts based solely on gate and TV revenue.

[driveway]

You'd have to do the math, but here's a site which breaks down Manchester United's salaries by the week (why the hell they do it by week, I don't know)
http://freshmanutd.com/manchester-un...-wages-201415/

And here's their fiscal report for 2013
http://ir.manutd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c...cle&ID=1855756

Now, obviously this doesn't include things like taxes, stadium costs, etc. But their expected revenue for 2014 is above 420 million pounds. 80 Million US dollars, the supposed value of the jersey sponsorship, is not an insignificant percentage of that money.

[Locke]

Why are people comparing putting ads on NHL jerseys to ads on Soccer jerseys?

Wouldnt the most likely comparable be European Hockey jerseys?

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by Locke

Why are people comparing putting ads on NHL jerseys to ads on Soccer jerseys?

Wouldnt the most likely comparable be European Hockey jerseys?

They are both horrific and nobody wants either.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by RyZ

They are both horrific and nobody wants either.

People (fans) may not want it, but I think it will happen. There is too much money at play.


Once one Pro league in NA does it the rest will follow.