08-20-2014, 11:51 PM
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#501
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Truculent!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oil Stain
I dunno. From what I have been reading of the history of the region, the Middle East seems to have been exactly like it is now for centuries.
Research the Barbary Pirates.
American Ships Were Protected Before Independence
Before the United States achieved independence from Britain, American merchants ships were protected on the high seas by Britain's Royal Navy. But when the young nation was established its shipping could no longer count on British warships keeping it safe.
In March 1786, two future presidents met with an ambassador from the pirate nations of North Africa. Thomas Jefferson, who was the US ambassador in France, and John Adams, the ambassador to Britain, met with the ambassador from Tripoli in London. They asked why American merchant ships were being attacked without provocation.
The ambassador explained that Muslim pirates considered Americans to be infidels and they believed they simply had the right to plunder American ships.
From http://history1800s.about.com/od/ame...arbarywars.htm
From what I read the extreme sect of Muslims in the Wahhabi movement have been around since the 1700's.
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d'oh, couldn't ninja edit in time.
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08-21-2014, 10:27 AM
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#502
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Calgary
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What Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan and Lybia have demonstrated is that you can't skip evolution - you can't impose modern forms on semi-primitive tribal societies. Mubarak (or Sisi now), Assad, Saddam and Quaddafi seem a whole lot better(? - for the West anyhow)/stable than the likely alternative.
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08-21-2014, 10:45 AM
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#504
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Franchise Player
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Hopefully someone picked up his Ray Bans so they can continue the fight in a stylish manner.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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08-21-2014, 10:57 AM
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#505
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
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Read about Lawrence of Arabia if you want to see how the colonial powers in WW1 lied to the Arabs that helped them defeat the Ottoman empire.
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08-21-2014, 06:55 PM
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#506
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Scoring Winger
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Here's the problem with the Muslims must be more vocal against Isis or other similar groups viewpoint-it's a message to Muslims that you are connected to every Muslim action across the globe. For years, the cry has been Muslims must integrate more, but the moment something happens halfway across the globe there are some demanding an action by Muslims. If you want Muslims to integrate, they should be expected to be no more vocal than any other group.
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08-21-2014, 07:20 PM
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#507
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCW Nitro
Here's the problem with the Muslims must be more vocal against Isis or other similar groups viewpoint-it's a message to Muslims that you are connected to every Muslim action across the globe. For years, the cry has been Muslims must integrate more, but the moment something happens halfway across the globe there are some demanding an action by Muslims. If you want Muslims to integrate, they should be expected to be no more vocal than any other group.
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I more or less agree. It's completely absurd to me to think that someone or a group would need to speak out against the actions of another just because they share the same religion. Like, do other Christians need to speak out when the Westborough Baptists do something stupid...
I do think more countries in the ME region need to offer to lend a hand to defeat ISIS though.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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08-21-2014, 08:48 PM
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#508
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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There's a huge media bias in the west to focus on the most extreme Muslims they can find.
There have been demonstrations, marches, speeches, declarations by high religious leaders etc. denouncing violence and extremism and calling for peace and religious tolerance in different forms all over the Islamic world, from small gatherings to hundreds of thousands at a time.
However, there is almost no tradition of reporting on those positive demonstrations. We don't do it, and from what I've heard they kind of go unnoticed even there. East or West, fear sells, hope does not.
And of course, just like the moderate Christian voices has almost zero effect on the Christian nutcases here, it doesn't seem to do much to stop the Muslim nutcases there.
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08-21-2014, 08:51 PM
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#509
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Djibouti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulu29
ISIS needs to be eradicated with the precision of a surgeons scalpel. Send in the special forces and wipe these creeps off the face of the earth.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cDnStealth
Yeah, because that worked so well before.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
It actually has. JSOC wrecked havoc on terrorist groups in the ME the past 10 years. It is actually scary how effective they became.
It was the general boots on the ground and nation building that didn't work.
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That is the problem, and why the whole process didn't work despite JSOC's mission specific successes.
Special forces could go in, kill a bunch of terrorists, kill some civilians in the process, and have a few Americans killed.
But then they'd leave, and in their wake would be a vast ungoverned region - ungoverned in Syria because of the multi-sided civil war, and ungoverned in western Iraq because they can't put together a truly non-sectarian government that brings the entire citizenry together, nor do they have an effective national army to combat insurgents. And into that vacuum would flow the next terrorist group.
If Iraq can't pull itself together, even in the face of this threat, a boots-on-the-ground military response from the US would just be a very costly (in terms of money and lives) game of whack a mole.
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08-22-2014, 12:25 AM
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#510
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Ate 100 Treadmills
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike F
That is the problem, and why the whole process didn't work despite JSOC's mission specific successes.
Special forces could go in, kill a bunch of terrorists, kill some civilians in the process, and have a few Americans killed.
But then they'd leave, and in their wake would be a vast ungoverned region - ungoverned in Syria because of the multi-sided civil war, and ungoverned in western Iraq because they can't put together a truly non-sectarian government that brings the entire citizenry together, nor do they have an effective national army to combat insurgents. And into that vacuum would flow the next terrorist group.
If Iraq can't pull itself together, even in the face of this threat, a boots-on-the-ground military response from the US would just be a very costly (in terms of money and lives) game of whack a mole.
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I just don't see how Iraq can put itself back together after this. Especially Kurdistan. What incentive do they have to rejoin the union. The Kurds really seem to have pulled together in this mayhem.
When everything settles, the arbitrary borders drawn by the French and English after WWI will simply no longer exist.
The bigger issue will be the relationship between Iran and Saudi Arabia. If Iran gains major influence in the #####e portions of Iraq, the Saudis are going to be forced to go on the offensive.
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08-22-2014, 04:10 PM
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#511
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Lifetime Suspension
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After watching some of their propaganda videos, these guys are no different than WWII Nazis. They have no place on this earth... I'd rather side with Assad than these ****ing animals.
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08-22-2014, 04:21 PM
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#512
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHOGUN
After watching some of their propaganda videos, these guys are no different than WWII Nazis. They have no place on this earth... I'd rather side with Assad than these ****ing animals.
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Hence my post #502. The choice is evil or lesser evil, so take the lesser evil.
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08-22-2014, 04:52 PM
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#513
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler
Hence my post #502. The choice is evil or lesser evil, so take the lesser evil.
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Trouble is I'm not sure whether any of the #######s are a lesser evil, just because the others don't boast about there be headings doesn't mean they ain't beheading anyone.
ISIS is just stupidly proud of their sickness
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08-22-2014, 04:53 PM
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#514
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHOGUN
After watching some of their propaganda videos, these guys are no different than WWII Nazis. They have no place on this earth... I'd rather side with Assad than these ****ing animals.
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Way worst actually, the Nazi death squads ( Einsatzgruppen) hated shooting civilians and it bothered them mentally big time (lots committed suicide), Himmler had to come up with an alternative, thus the camps and gas chambers.
To take a 6 inch knife and saw a persons head off takes a whole lot of ######ation. the only place on this earth a person like this deserves is in pieces scattered threwout the desert.
Good Muslims need to band together and stop these ######s before the whole religion gets smacked into the dark ages.
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08-22-2014, 05:18 PM
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#515
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sylvan Lake
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This is good to see.
The Muslim community speaking out against these #######s.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...rike-1.2744182
Quote:
A Calgary imam will start a 48-hour hunger strike Friday evening to protest the beheading of an American journalist in Iraq this week by ISIS.
Imam Syed Soharwardy, founder of Muslims Against Terrorism and the Islamic Supreme Council of Canada, says he wants to draw attention to the actions of ISIS — a group of militants fighting for an Islamic state in the Middle East whose violent activities show they are not Muslims.
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__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sliver
Just ignore me...I'm in a mood today.
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08-24-2014, 11:02 PM
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#516
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Calgary, AB
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SAS and US Special Forces are forming "Hunter Killer Unit" to "Smash Islamic State"
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...hunter-4097083
Quote:
Elite British and US special forces troops are forming a hunter killer unit called Task Force Black – its orders: “Smash the Islamic State.”
The undercover warriors will aim to “cut the head off the snake” by hitting the command structure of the Islamist terror group responsible for a trail of atrocities across Iraq and Syria, reports the Sunday People.
PM David Cameron has told the SAS and UK spy agencies to direct all their #resources at defeating IS after a video of US journalist James Foley being beheaded shocked the world.
British special forces will work with America’s Delta Force and Seal Team 6. The move sees a rebirth of top secret Task Force Black, which helped defeat al-Qaeda terrorists in Iraq .
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Swears
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08-24-2014, 11:07 PM
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#517
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Franchise Player
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Hmm, where have I heard that "cut the head off the snake" before. How many times do they have to kill leaders of terror groups before they realize it doesn't really do anything?
They need to cut off a lot more than the head.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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08-25-2014, 12:15 AM
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#518
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Norm!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik-
Hmm, where have I heard that "cut the head off the snake" before. How many times do they have to kill leaders of terror groups before they realize it doesn't really do anything?
They need to cut off a lot more than the head.
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I would agree, killing the leaders and their replacements until the inexperience hurts the group is a start.
Its time to go after the countries that are funding these groups. Yes the Saudi's are supposed to be on the side of the States, as are other nations like Pakistan, but they're playing their own games.
Cut off all funding to those nations and seize their back accounts and stop buying their oil.
Arrest and expel members of these groups doing recruiting in Western Nations, if they're citizens either expel them or if they're born here imprison them for ever.
Combine special forces with air assets and naval assets, put a ton of money into intelligence in the region.
As a former Special Forces Operator said in one of his books, the best way to fight terrorists is to terrorize them, to fight a meaner nastier war with them. To get them on the run and make them hear foot steps. While they're committed to martyrdom, there's nothing the matter with helping them on the way in the most gruesome and humiliating way possible.
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08-25-2014, 05:28 AM
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#519
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1...dummies-amazon
Quote:
In 2008, a classified briefing note on radicalisation, prepared by MI5’s behavioural science unit, was leaked to the Guardian. It revealed that, “far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could ... be regarded as religious novices.” The analysts concluded that “a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation,” the newspaper said.
For more evidence, read the books of the forensic psychiatrist and former CIA officer Marc Sageman; the political scientist Robert Pape; the international relations scholar Rik Coolsaet; the Islamism expert Olivier Roy; the anthropologist Scott Atran. They have all studied the lives and backgrounds of hundreds of gun-toting, bomb-throwing jihadists and they all agree that Islam isn’t to blame for the behaviour of such men (and, yes, they usually are men).
Instead they point to other drivers of radicalisation: moral outrage, disaffection, peer pressure, the search for a new identity, for a sense of belonging and purpose. As Atran pointed out in testimony to the US Senate in March 2010: “... what inspires the most lethal terrorists in the world today is not so much the Quran or religious teachings as a thrilling cause and call to action that promises glory and esteem in the eyes of friends, and through friends, eternal respect and remembrance in the wider world.” He described wannabe jihadists as “bored, underemployed, overqualified and underwhelmed” young men for whom “jihad is an egalitarian, equal-opportunity employer ... thrilling, glorious and cool.”
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08-25-2014, 08:54 AM
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#520
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Norm!
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As proven by the loser creep who killed James Foley, who has been identified as a former rapper who had a at worst upper middle class up bringing. The scumbag's from Calgary who were raised upper middle class to moderately wealthy and were given every opportunity.
These people are inhumane thrill killers, they're not disenfranchised and marginalized youth, they're psycho paths and the only solution for them is a un marked grave.
As for the recruiting of them, I'm betting the pitch, beyond, hey you get to kill people in the worst possible way and rape anyone that you want and god will forgive you and man won't be able to prosecute you, is that someday soon you'll be able to do the same thing in your home country.
http://nypost.com/2014/08/24/masked-...le-identified/
It takes a different kind of dirt bag to slowly saw the head off of a man, or rape and shoot kids.
Personally I don't care about understanding their root causes, I think the root cause is pretty apparent. Spend money on intelligence with the end goal of extermination.
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