Kevin O'Leary's Letter to Premier Notley - Carbon Tax Discussion

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Schools are going to take a beating....

adult image upload

Why are these numbers always leaked to the Wildrose and never just released by the NDP?

Another Wildrose leak with no context. Is that a 1% increase in costs? a 10% increase? Is it actually significant?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

They are still charging more than they need to, but they are free to charge however much they'd like.

Depends on what you mean by need.

I suspect the value of gas stations on the sask side of the boarder was less then the Alberta side as they could not make as much money off of gas sales. So because the value of the gas station was lower you could justify the investment at a lower price.

Now that they sit in a favourable tax regime the value of the gas stations has increased and they need to have a higher price to maintain the same rate of return.

In a competitive market the price should always settle at what the most efficient company can make an acceptable rate of return. Therefore the price you are paying overtime is correct.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Another Wildrose leak with no context. Is that a 1% increase in costs? a 10% increase? Is it actually significant?

The summary is freely available on the Alberta Education website.

https://education.alberta.ca/budget-2016/

They have been budgeted 9.8 billion for 2016/2017. About .1% of their budget would go to increased spending due to the carbon tax (.13% of their operating expenses).

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Another Wildrose leak with no context. Is that a 1% increase in costs? a 10% increase? Is it actually significant?

The context is that an NDP election promise was to cut school fees by 50%...

Our plan focuses on reducing class sizes, cutting school fees by half,

The other promise is that a carbon levy rebate will cover 100%+ of the cost to a low income family. The numbers they used to derive that figure do not include rebates to cities or school boards and so quite obviously those costs are going to be over and above. Obviously this hasn't been thought out too well.

It is weird they are billing this as a leaked document when it was available all along.

[Flash Walken]

Calling it a leaked document makes it sound a lot sexier though.

Also makes them look competent, like they have sources inside the government feeding them things and aren't just googling things to get info.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

They should just put on a sweater and buy new furnaces and windows.

Not to mention, do the maintenance staff need all of those carbon-heavy trucks and vans? I want to see one of those guys mow an entire school field dragging the big combine thing behind a Prius.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Locke

I want to see one of those guys mow an entire school field dragging the big combine thing behind a Prius.

Why would you pollute carbon from the Prius? You've got hundreds of perfectly good students who could probably use some exercise. Dozens of teaching staff too.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Why would you pollute carbon from the Prius? You've got hundreds of perfectly good students who could probably use some exercise. Dozens of teaching staff too.

Gym class could be kids on exercise bikes generating the power to keep the lights on.

"Its getting dim in here kids, pedal faster!!"

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Locke

Gym class could be kids on exercise bikes generating the power to keep the lights on.

"Its getting dim in here kids, pedal faster!!"

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I was thinking more along the lines of this:

[wookster]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Another Wildrose leak with no context. Is that a 1% increase in costs? a 10% increase? Is it actually significant?

I would say a 8-12 million dollar increase on budget would be significant for anyone...

But then I guess they will get it all back in rebates anyway so who cares.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by wookster

I would say a 8-12 million dollar increase on budget would be significant for anyone...

But then I guess they will get it all back in rebates anyway so who cares.

Didn't the NDP give the province's schools an extra 100 million this year compared to last?

[Locke]

If anything it speaks to Nenshi's disapproval of the fact that Government agencies dont receive a Carbon Tax exemption.

His disapproval, in my opinion, makes a lot of sense. At the moment the NDP are telling us that we have to reduce our carbon footprint and they're going to kick us in our wallets in order to accomplish their goal. But at the same time they're telling us that the difference is going to be so small we wont even notice.

So I dont exactly know what method they are attempting to use to modify our behaviour but if its 'confusion' it may not be all that effective.

You see a lot of people complaining about having to heat their homes and fuel their cars and the increased costs involved in that, but think about the same facts when you're running a school district.

Sure the NDP claim that our total outlay due to the Carbon tax is going to be ~$100-$500 a year per family and we can take this number at face value or call it horse-hockey or whatever, but take whatever equivalent value you want and multiply it by what the City has to pay, or the Calgary School Board and you find that this little multiplier is just that, a multiplier.

What you find at the end of the day is that tax revenue decreases due to fewer oil royalties, okay they've increased taxes to sort of make up for that a little bit.

But then the Government has to run schools and hospitals which use an astonishing amount of power. The Government has now artificially made that power more expensive and as such these institutions are spending more of their budgets on basic necessities like keeping the furnaces running and the lights on, and while those budgets are what they are we cannot forget that, at source, fewer dollars are coming through the door.

That little bastard law of diminishing returns.

Thats okay though, we cant inconvenience the teachers and nurses so ol' Orange will just charge it to the card.

And I dont mean that in any way as a slight to teachers or nurses, if anything they should be angry as hell, more than most, because now more of their operating budgets dont go to help fund and supply the front line staff, you know, the people that tend to do most of the work and provide most of the value?

Now they're consuming more of their budgets on Power and heat and fuel.

Make basic necessities more expensive.

Seems like a brilliant plan for improving our health and educational services.

[stampsx2]

Anybody know if the carbon rebates will be tax exempt next year? Or is the ndp counting on most people not noticing?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Locke

If anything it speaks to Nenshi's disapproval of the fact that Government agencies dont receive a Carbon Tax exemption.

His disapproval, in my opinion, makes a lot of sense. At the moment the NDP are telling us that we have to reduce our carbon footprint and they're going to kick us in our wallets in order to accomplish their goal. But at the same time they're telling us that the difference is going to be so small we wont even notice.

So I dont exactly know what method they are attempting to use to modify our behaviour but if its 'confusion' it may not be all that effective.

You see a lot of people complaining about having to heat their homes and fuel their cars and the increased costs involved in that, but think about the same facts when you're running a school district.

Sure the NDP claim that our total outlay due to the Carbon tax is going to be ~$100-$500 a year per family and we can take this number at face value or call it horse-hockey or whatever, but take whatever equivalent value you want and multiply it by what the City has to pay, or the Calgary School Board and you find that this little multiplier is just that, a multiplier.

What you find at the end of the day is that tax revenue decreases due to fewer oil royalties, okay they've increased taxes to sort of make up for that a little bit.

But then the Government has to run schools and hospitals which use an astonishing amount of power. The Government has now artificially made that power more expensive and as such these institutions are spending more of their budgets on basic necessities like keeping the furnaces running and the lights on, and while those budgets are what they are we cannot forget that, at source, fewer dollars are coming through the door.

That little bastard law of diminishing returns.

Thats okay though, we cant inconvenience the teachers and nurses so ol' Orange will just charge it to the card.

And I dont mean that in any way as a slight to teachers or nurses, if anything they should be angry as hell, more than most, because now more of their operating budgets dont go to help fund and supply the front line staff, you know, the people that tend to do most of the work and provide most of the value?

Now they're consuming more of their budgets on Power and heat and fuel.

Make basic necessities more expensive.

Seems like a brilliant plan for improving our health and educational services.

I think that schools are excellent targets where revenue neutral policy would be great. Schools and municipalities should absolutely pay the carbon tax. Their budgets should have been increase by the amount of tax paid. This then incentivizes these large consumers of gas to implement changes to improve efficiency. The whole carbon tax thing works if it's revenue neutral and not wasted on "green initiatives"

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think that schools are excellent targets where revenue neutral policy would be great. Schools and municipalities should absolutely pay the carbon tax. Their budgets should have been increase by the amount of tax paid. This then incentivizes these large consumers of gas to implement changes to improve efficiency. The whole carbon tax thing works if it's revenue neutral and not wasted on "green initiatives"

Is that something that is typically within their administration's control though?

Can the Principal say: "school dance is canceled this year so we can install some better windows."

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Locke

Is that something that is typically within their administration's control though?

Can the Principal say: "school dance is canceled this year so we can install some better windows."

Do you schedule your home reno's during march?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Do you schedule your home reno's during march?

Absolutely. I dont want to be home for that crap.

[chemgear]

I'm bemused that ad blitz by the NDP has some bat#### crazy woman hanging her laundry outside to dry right now.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Locke

Is that something that is typically within their administration's control though?

Can the Principal say: "school dance is canceled this year so we can install some better windows."

I'm always shocked that there is a period of time when schools are empty. They really should babysit our children year round.