Could Putin turn into a modern day Hitler?

[T@T]

Lies, but yet overwhelming support from citizens and has no problem giving the finger to the rest of the world over "any" issue at all.

This goof has his finger on the trigger of over 8000 nukes and now even brags about it.

Do we have a problem here?

[flylock shox]

There's a problem, for sure. But not a Hitleresque one.

Ukraine has huge Russian populations within it, areas that might have voted to join Russia if they'd been given the chance. I suspect Putin will satisfy himself with those, and the West will appease him by allowing that to happen. I don't think he goes full Hitler and starts laying claim to areas without strong pro-Russian leanings.

We'll have our answer if he starts into Western Ukraine though. If that happens it will be a very clear war, and all bets are off: that region will not "turn" like the East, but will fight to the death. So far Putin has taken what was easy to take and involved little cost or resistance. I expect he'll continue to do this and no more. If he crosses that line, appeasement will cease to be a viable strategy and life could get very interesting.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by T@T

Lies, but yet overwhelming support from citizens and has no problem giving the finger to the rest of the world over "any" issue at all.

This goof has his finger on the trigger of over 8000 nukes and now even brags about it.

Do we have a problem here?

I would say he's more George bush Jr. then Hitler. Ukraine will be his Iraq.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

I would say he's more George bush Jr. then Hitler. Ukraine will be his Iraq.

I dunno about that comparison.

Putin has risen from bleak nothingness to become one of the most powerful men on earth. He's been handed virtually nothing and used persistence, hard work, and policitical cunning to get to where he is.

He's managed to manipulate relationships (using his KGB Intel and experience) to build an iron-fisted 'Putin Policitcal Infrastructure' that has enabled him to amass one of the world's largest fortunes, and circumvent the law/intent of the Russian Constitution to stay in power longer than allowed.

He has effectively leveraged Russia's military, economy, and natural resources to dominate independant nations in the region....clearly attempting to eventually make them into satellite states.

He's managed to take advantage of situations (some would argue even orchestrate them...) to make land grabs in Chechnya, parts of Georgia, and now Crimea...with more of Ukraine looking like its up for grabs.

And watch out for Kazakhstan. They've got some incredible energy reserves and a HUGE Russian population that is feeling alienated by the Kazakh Government.

In comparison....

George Bush Jr. was a rich kid who failed at just about everything he attempted in life, and only acheived middling results thanks to the huge financial and political infratstructure his family already had in place to support him.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Ukraine has huge Russian populations within it, areas that might have voted to join Russia if they'd been given the chance.

You mean kind of like how Austria has huge German populations....?

[Thor]

He reminds me of many dictators, his long town hall type discussions where he goes on for hours and hours talking reminds me of Castro. He has done a lot these last 10 years to garner more control over media, he's made a cult of personality a big part of Russian life and now with his behavior during the Ukraine crisis, one he probably spearheaded from the start leaves me wondering what are his long term goals, which is what should worry everyone.

I don't think he's capable of going far enough to start an all out war, even he can't be that stupid, but he's going to push where he senses weakness and sadly the EU and especially eastern EU is rife with pickings for this new way of waging warfare, the proxy, deniability "rebellion" style war might just be the first of many.

The worst part is how solidly he controls the media and what people hear in Russia, they are fully eating up all that he says and convinces them all that the US, EU are the liars. Its frightening how this can happen with the internet so pervasive now, you'd hope the youth in Russia would at least see through his BS but they are some of his most dedicated followers.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Thor

I don't think he's capable of going far enough to start an all out war, even he can't be that stupid, but he's going to push where he senses weakness and sadly the EU and especially eastern EU is rife with pickings for this new way of waging warfare, the proxy, deniability "rebellion" style war might just be the first of many.

I think this is a key difference. Germany didn't have any real economic or political clout to leverage at the time, which made physical force the only real path that was open to Hitler (which I would also argue suited him just fine....). It could also be argued that Germany took on too much too fast (possibly out of necessity), but that's just a theory.

Putin has proven to be very smart, and undoubtedly understands that he can wield Russia's size, wealth, resources, and cultural influence to gain de facto control over areas that he covets. And of course, the military *is* there when the going gets tough or he wishes to expedite things (ex. Ukraine).

In my opinion, Putin has a stronger deck of cards to play the game with. It's scary to think that he may also be a better game player....but I'm still torn on that one.

[FlameOn]

While the era and cultural mindset are different, there are a lot of similarities that you can draw between Hitler and Putin. One thing to note though Putin grew up in an era that is radically different than post WWI 20s and 30s era and the world is a much more open-minded and cosmopolitan place than it was back then. There are still enough to make the similarities concerning to to say the least between pre-WWII Hitler and modern Putin. These include:

• Both came to power during times of extreme economic hardship and claimed success in turning the economy around
• Both were democratically elected but subverted the democratic processes to maintain power and control over government
• Both started re-militarization and modernization of their armed forces once in power
• Both started a campaign of minority prosecution once in power to use as a scapegoat for the states problems (yes I know not anywhere near the degree... but times are different now as I said earlier)
• Both have started youth programs aimed at training and militarization of youth... wikipedia Nashi and Hitler Jugend
• Both are trying to redefine borders based on treaties, outside of their control, which left their ethnic populations trapped outside of their national borders. Poland, Austria, Denmark vs. Lithuania, Ukraine, etc.
• Both launched "soft" invasions/intervention of neighbouring countries using oppression of ethnic Russians/German as an excuse. See Austria, Sudentenland vs. current Ukraine
• Both signed treaties claiming they had no territorial ambitions that proved false afterwards. Hitler signed the Munich agreements and Putin signed treaties in 94 and 97 guaranteeing Ukraine and Crimea's borders. Lavrov as recently as half a year ago claimed "Russia has no plans to invade the south-east regions of Ukraine"
• Both claimed concern about unrest and violence in a region when evidence shows that they were both directly involved in causing or encouraging the unrest and violence
• Both annexed territory without declaration of war. See Crimea vs. Austria, the Sudetenland
• Both are interested in neutralizing key strategic problems on their borders. Hitler wanted to neutralize Czechoslovakia as a French/British ally and Putin has done the same with both Georgia and Ukraine and the West

There are a lot of similarities between Russia and Pre-WWII Germany, but you can't really compare the similarities without comparing the differences as well... there isn't the level of persecution or prejudice that the Nazi party was responsible for. Will he do anything close to Hitler in that regard, I'd say no... but yea, still lots of parallels you can draw here.

[CaptainCrunch]

I think that while there are some similarities in terms of military goals and achievements, that Putin isn't the evil that Hitler was and its not even close.

However they both had the benefit of facing off against weak willed opponents. The one benefit of Hitler is it created a almost golden age of strong Western Political leaders, hopefully that happens here.

I wouldn't even class Putin as a Stalin figure.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

You mean kind of like how Austria has huge German populations....?

Yes, exactly. I think the difference being Hitler's annexation of the Sudentenlands was never his end game, whereas I think that attempting to annex former Soviet regions with primarily Russian populations is as far as Putin is likely to go. And I think we'll be able to tell if this is true by what happens with Western Ukraine. If Putin is willing to take on that region, we will know that appeasement will not work and that Putin's ambitions are greater than simply unifying Russian populations under one flag.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Yes, exactly. I think the difference being Hitler's annexation of the Sudentenlands was never his end game, whereas I think that attempting to annex former Soviet regions with primarily Russian populations is as far as Putin is likely to go. And I think we'll be able to tell if this is true by what happens with Western Ukraine. If Putin is willing to take on that region, we will know that appeasement will not work and that Putin's ambitions are greater than simply unifying Russian populations under one flag.

I think his ambitions are greater, though not much. I also don't think he cares about the ethnic russian issue as much as creating access to important military area and creating a bigger buffer between Russia and the west

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I think his ambitions are greater, though not much. I also don't think he cares about the ethnic russian issue as much as creating access to important military area and creating a bigger buffer between Russia and the west

You very well could be right, and his pursuit of "Russian" territories is nothing more than a veil. Still, I think he's unlikely to step far beyond that veil, so the ultimate result may be the same either way.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Yes, exactly. I think the difference being Hitler's annexation of the Sudentenlands was never his end game, whereas I think that attempting to annex former Soviet regions with primarily Russian populations is as far as Putin is likely to go.

I don't think that's how the world works. When somebody gets something with power, he generally does not consider what he wants. He mostly cares about what he can get.

Putin himself has already referred to "Novorossiya militia" instead of Eastern Ukraine. He has already sent Russian troops across the border. There is already open warfare, just not very large scale.

It's pretty clear Russian population has nothing to do with this. As long as he will continue to get away with it, he'll keep at it.

Living in a former Russian region, I see little reason to not take Putin deadly seriously. He is a relatively young, fit and patient man, who could live for a very long time and will slowly but surely keep adding countries and land under his rule as much as he can. The only upside for me personally is that Finland probably pretty low on his list of potential targets.

[FlamesAddiction]

I would compare him more so to Slobodan Milosevic. Putin's action over the past year have been taken from an almost identical playbook.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-...b_5185611.html

http://www.rferl.org/content/whats-t.../25293610.html

[T@T]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think that while there are some similarities in terms of military goals and achievements, that Putin isn't the evil that Hitler was and its not even close.

However they both had the benefit of facing off against weak willed opponents. The one benefit of Hitler is it created a almost golden age of strong Western Political leaders, hopefully that happens here.

I wouldn't even class Putin as a Stalin figure.

Was Hitler any more "evil" than Putin before the war?

From my seat Putin is murdering people in Ukraine and has dirty fingers from the deaths of 298 people that plunged from 30,000 ft.

[WCW Nitro]

I wonder how much of this is just being in power too long does crazy things to people. Whether it was Gaddafi, Saddam, and now Putin, their behavior got more erratic the longer they stayed in power.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by T@T

Was Hitler any more "evil" than Putin before the war?

From my seat Putin is murdering people in Ukraine and has dirty fingers from the deaths of 298 people that plunged from 30,000 ft.

I would argue that yes, before the war Hitler was already working to destroy a entire people.

He galvanized his people to heights of hatred that will probably not be seen again in a European nation.

[edslunch]

I haven't seen any evidence that Putin is driven by the same sort of warped core belief system that Hitler was or that he has his own version of Mien Kampf. He does share some of the same cunning and willingness to test his opponents' resolve though.

[Vulcan]

It's pretty clear Russian population has nothing to do with this. As long as he will continue to get away with it, he'll keep at it.

Does he have the balls to go after a NATO country? Maybe Finland should join up? I think Belarus is already a client state but maybe he'll make it officially a part of Russia. I'm not sure of the status of the Stan countries but those could be his next target.

[CaptainYooh]

Hitler was a paranoid lunatic that fanatically (but sincerely) believed in his ideological crap. Putin is a calculating SOB with imperial ambitions of restoring the former greatness of the Russian Empire/USSR. He believes that Russia was suppressed by the West (i.e. US) long enough in the 90's after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the world power balance needs to be restored back to the former equilibrium. He will likely push until he meets resistance strong enough to start a war; then he'll stop. This is the biggest difference.