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Old 03-04-2014, 05:40 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by morgin View Post
Don't be that poster who ignores a discussion and tries to score points by being like "oh man, that poster likes another team, all of their arguments are invalid!". I know this is coached as an "I don't know" but the dude's comment was fair, which is that you can't say out of one side of your mouth that a 7th round pick who has proven nothing is a legitimate prospect while a goalie who still theoretically has potential is not.

Even if he was a canucks fan, which by his comments here I doubt, it wouldn't matter. Have a hockey discussion on the merits of people's arguments, not a "lalala the team you like sucks so everything you say is stupid lalala"
It was actually an off topic question and had nothing to do with a 7th round pick or prospects or a goalies potential.

On another note, you are obviously a Canucks fan.
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:44 PM   #422
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It was actually an off topic question and had nothing to do with a 7th round pick or prospects or a goalies potential.

On another note, you are obviously a Canucks fan.
Yeah i didn't mean to pick on you. It was more a comment that in the context of these discussions, it really shouldn't matter who someone cheers for (I kind of believe that about all hockey discussions, but a lot of people here seem to disagree).

I'm a big fan of Luongo. If that makes me a Canucks fan in your eyes, whatever. Most people here would likely disagree that I'm any sort of Canucks fan because I can write in full sentences.
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:54 PM   #423
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You guys realize trading an aging, disgruntled goalie -who would have likely cleared waivers - for anything is actually not that bad right?
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:54 PM   #424
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Awesome news. Can't wait until Eddy Lack collapses under the pressure.
I feel for anyone who has the misfortune of playing goal for the Vancouver Canucks. Those fans are absolutely awful. Flyer fans are nicer.

I expect Luongo to have a real renaissance in Florida. Maybe not Patrick Roy to Colorado big, but I would be astonished if he didn't finish off his career strong. I can't imagine how mentally tough you have to be to put up the kind of numbers he has in that clown car of an organization.
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:54 PM   #425
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I'm glad Luongo was traded, as I honestly like him as a goalie, and became a closet fan of his after following him on twitter. Now that doesn't have to run against the Canucks hate in me.
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:54 PM   #426
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You guys realize trading an aging, disgruntled goalie -who would have likely cleared waivers - for anything is actually not that bad right?
Keep telling yourself that.
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:54 PM   #427
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Yes, this is a terrible deal. This is a terrible deal that Gillis forced himself into. The end result is that he parlayed his franchise goaltender into spare parts. You can call it a "rebuilding deal" all you like - and if you are a Canucks fan, I suspect you might have to just to choke this one down. But even Gillis was talking about "retooling" in his interviews today. Vancouver is not looking at rebuilding. This was all disaster management by a disaster in management.
So wait.

First you're agreeing with me that it's a bad deal for the Canucks and a good deal for the Panthers. Which it obviously is, given the Panthers get a top 10 goalie in the NHL signed for 4.5M AAV when such goalies are worth 6 at least, and the Canucks get a 3C and MAYBE a guy who someday plays net for them and very probably isn't as good as Luongo even if he does. Okay.

Now, I agree, if they're still "going for it", this deal is stupid. They are less likely to win a playoff round this year or next year as a result of this trade. But IMO, they're not going to make the playoffs anyway at this point. I actually thought they might because their schedule was stupid easy for the 2nd half, but they even managed to f*** that up somehow, so it looks like no dice. They're also looking to trade Ryan Kesler, arguably their best player (definitely their best this season) for picks and prospects. Yet you don't think they're looking at rebuilding? I don't see how you can come to that conclusion, whatever their GM wants to say publicly. Their actions suggest that's exactly what they're doing. So on this I just disagree with you.

However, the comment I objected to was that a 7th round pick four years ago - does this guy even have a contract going forward? - is "the only prospect in the deal" while Markstrom was valueless and would amount to nothing. Say what you want about Markstrom, he sucked in the Panthers uniform, maybe he ends up being a bust, and he's sure as hell not the blue chip he was a year ago. He's a high risk prospect, but he's still a legitimate prospect. Meanwhile, if anyone here is a "nothing", it's Steven Anthony. That is why your comment was ridiculous, and I don't just disagree, I balk.

I mean basically in two years Gillis has completely screwed up the Canucks' goaltending situation and received hilariously little in return. Like I say, I think this is the start of the rebuild, and given what he's gotten in return for those assets, Horvat and Markstrom, it's baffling how incompetently he's handled it. To date, there's every reason to think that Flames fans will be able to point and laugh at the Canucks franchise as they stumble awkwardly through a series of bad decisions. But come on, have some sense of objectivity, or you're not even a hockey fan anymore. Schadenfreude is more fun when the subject matter is true.

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Old 03-04-2014, 05:55 PM   #428
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If anyone's watching, TSN is absolutely ripping this trade right now
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:55 PM   #429
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Keep telling yourself that.
Check his stats this year.
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:58 PM   #430
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I am actually happy for Luongo that he finally got out of Vancouver. I was never much of a fan, but he has been such a good sport through all this crap the Canucks and their fans have put him through.


Also I really really hope this means the return of the pink panther
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:01 PM   #431
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Originally Posted by Quincy Egg View Post
You guys realize trading an aging, disgruntled goalie -who would have likely cleared waivers - for anything is actually not that bad right?
Maybe had they not already traded their top young goal tender in the summer...when you looked at the combined return for those guys its an absolute disaster
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:01 PM   #432
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Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19 View Post
So wait.

Yet you don't think they're looking at rebuilding? I don't see how you can come to that conclusion, whatever their GM wants to say publicly. Their actions suggest that's exactly what they're doing. So on this I just disagree with you.
The only thing here is that we still don't have the full picture. I think it will depend a lot on what they try to get back for Kesler, if they trade him. If they don't, and this is the only deal, it's a tough sell to say this is clear evidence of the start of a rebuild. I think it's just as easy to chalk it up to horrible asset management and effectively making your starting goalie hate your franchise so much you have no choice but to trade him and this is literally all Gillis could get back.

If they trade Kesler for prospects, I'd say they're heading into rebuild territory.

If they do a typical Canucks trade and try to get back proven NHL players like David Booth it's arguably this "retool" Gillis is talking about and they will probably flounder around like the Flames did for a few seasons getting terrible draft placement but not making the playoffs.

Last edited by morgin; 03-04-2014 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:01 PM   #433
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wow... that's all i gotta say.

curious what the nuck fan base thinks of how this whole debacle has ended.
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:02 PM   #434
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nevermind, i see #firegillis is currently trending on twitter hahahahaha
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:04 PM   #435
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I had a nice thought.

Luongo retires at 36 yrs of age.

That %15 isn't so small anymore.
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:04 PM   #436
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Lol:

@SWhyno: #Canucks GM Mike Gillis, the man who traded Roberto Luongo: "It takes a lot of courage to trade a player like Roberto Luongo.
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:06 PM   #437
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Maybe had they not already traded their top young goal tender in the summer...when you looked at the combined return for those guys its an absolute disaster
You mean the goalie who has marginally better stats than Lack, despite playing for a team that shuts things right down?
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:06 PM   #438
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Lol:

@SWhyno: #Canucks GM Mike Gillis, the man who traded Roberto Luongo: "It takes a lot of courage to trade a player like Roberto Luongo.
Man that guy is a clown...hope they hang on to him for a while yet
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:07 PM   #439
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The Flames remained a playoff team for four years after making the final and were in the hunt down to the wire for another three. The Canucks are tearing things down two years after making the final but the Flames really never crashed and burned this fast. They just gradually eroded staying good enough to make or just miss the playoffs. Gillis with his sloppy handling of the goaltender situation and inability to find a top forward to supplement what he inherited really sent the franchise into a spiral.
As much as I agree that the canucks are terribly managed, etc - I think if the flames had started selling off pieces 2 yrs after the finals, we would be in a much better spot right now. Assessing who you would move at that point is a different story though. I think it's a much more difficult balancing act than you're making it out to be here. Plus with deep drafts speculated over the next few years, they should be in line for some much better picks (and likely a quicker turnaround) than most teams that explore rebuilding.

I'd expect the twins to be there until the end of time, but I'd suppose it is possible to move them too if enough salary is retained. (not suggesting this in particular is good management practice).
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:08 PM   #440
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I had a nice thought. Luongo retires at 36 yrs of age. That %15 isn't so small anymore.
If he retired at 36, i.e. at the end of the 2016 season, the Canucks would be hit with a recapture penalty of 1.4M, and the Panthers would get hit with 500k; both until the end of the 2021 season.
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