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Old 08-10-2017, 02:39 PM   #21
Tinordi
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My top five would be:

McDanus
Matthews
Laine
Kucherov
Eichel
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Old 08-10-2017, 02:44 PM   #22
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My top 5 would be

Gaudreau
Monahan
Hamilton
Tkachuk
Bennett

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Old 08-10-2017, 02:45 PM   #23
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For Reference this was the top 25 players in Pts/game last season for players under 25.

1 Connor McDavid
2 Nikita Kucherov
3 Mark Scheifele
4 Leon Draisaitl
5 David Pastrnak
6 Jack Eichel
7 Patrik Laine
8 Conor Sheary
9 Mikael Granlund
10 Johnny Gaudreau
11 Aleksander Barkov
12 Auston Matthews
13 Jonathan Huberdeau
14 Jake Guentzel
15 Jeff Skinner
16 Mitch Marner
17 Nikolaj Ehlers
18 Josh Leivo
19 Viktor Arvidsson
20 Mark Stone
21 William Nylander
22 Ryan Johansen
23 Alexander Wennberg
24 Jonathan Drouin
25 Evgeny Kuznetsov
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Old 08-10-2017, 03:12 PM   #24
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I'd probably do it something like:

Tier 1) Franchise Players
Jack Eichel
Auston Matthews
Connor McDavid
Mark Scheifele
Aleksander Barkov
Matthew Murray
Nikita Kucherov

Tier 2) Top Producers Who Led Their Line/Team/Pair Offensively
Evgeni Kuznetsov
Dougie Hamilton
Zach Werenski
Johnny Gaudreau
Patrik Laine

Tier 3) Stars Who Produced Well On Strong Lines/Pairs
Aaron Ekblad
Nathan MacKinnon
Ryan Johansen
Matthew Tkachuk
David Pastrnak
Sean Monahan
William Nylander
Leon Draisaitl
Colton Parayko
Jake Guentzel


Tier 4) Super High-End Prospects
Nico Hischier
Andrei Svechnikov
Rasmus Dahlin

HM: Mikael Granlund, Mitchell Marner, Seth Jones, Nikolaj Ehlers, Jacob Trouba

I'm probably forgetting somebody though.
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Old 08-10-2017, 03:21 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by GranteedEV View Post
I'd probably do it something like:

Tier 1) Franchise Players
Jack Eichel
Auston Matthews
Connor McDavid
Mark Scheifele
Aleksander Barkov
Matthew Murray
Nikita Kucherov

Tier 2) Top Producers Who Led Their Line/Team/Pair Offensively
Evgeni Kuznetsov
Dougie Hamilton
Zach Werenski
Johnny Gaudreau
Patrik Laine

Tier 3) Stars Who Produced Well On Strong Lines/Pairs
Aaron Ekblad
Nathan MacKinnon
Ryan Johansen
Matthew Tkachuk
David Pastrnak
Sean Monahan
William Nylander
Leon Draisaitl
Colton Parayko
Jake Guentzel


Tier 4) Super High-End Prospects
Nico Hischier
Andrei Svechnikov
Rasmus Dahlin

HM: Mikael Granlund, Mitchell Marner, Seth Jones, Nikolaj Ehlers, Jacob Trouba

I'm probably forgetting somebody though.
It's the top 25 under 25, high end prospects don't really matter unless they deserve to be considered in that group... the 3 bolded definitely don't belong on this list over your HMs... unless you're creating a different type of list than the top 25 under 25.
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Old 08-10-2017, 03:27 PM   #26
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Looking at some of these lists, it appears Gaudreau is pretty underrated here too.

I don't think Drysaddle has proven himself better than JH yet. Or at least more of a catalyst than a complimentary player. Johnny is a (/the) catalyst on the Flames offense. Damn, one good but not great year and suddenly he's written in below guys he should not be.
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Old 08-10-2017, 03:55 PM   #27
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It's the top 25 under 25, high end prospects don't really matter unless they deserve to be considered in that group... the 3 bolded definitely don't belong on this list over your HMs... unless you're creating a different type of list than the top 25 under 25.
Those three do belong on my list. Could they fall off from where they are now? Maybe but Gaudreau could also go the way of Eberle, nothing is set in stone for any of these guys.

I'm especially not going to take away from them their accomplishments just because they're not twenty yet. Hischier for example had arguably the most dominant WJC for a skater since McDavid, as a freshly turned 18 year old. Guys like Marner and Ehlers played in that tournament at older ages and never made as much impact, while playing a lesser position.

Dahlin was a 16 year old 6'3" man-child with high-end offense and a mature two-way game... even if you value maturity, teams would strongly consider trading a guy like Ehlers for the 2018 #1OA.

Svechnikov has been called the highest-end Russian prospect since Ovechkin/Malkin. He just tore up the USHL at 16 with Gaudreau type numbers.

Sometimes prospects are just prospects, and sometimes they are in fact worth more than established young NHLers.

ANYWAYS - this is all subjective.
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Old 08-10-2017, 06:13 PM   #28
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Those three do belong on my list. Could they fall off from where they are now? Maybe but Gaudreau could also go the way of Eberle, nothing is set in stone for any of these guys.

I'm especially not going to take away from them their accomplishments just because they're not twenty yet. Hischier for example had arguably the most dominant WJC for a skater since McDavid, as a freshly turned 18 year old. Guys like Marner and Ehlers played in that tournament at older ages and never made as much impact, while playing a lesser position.

Dahlin was a 16 year old 6'3" man-child with high-end offense and a mature two-way game... even if you value maturity, teams would strongly consider trading a guy like Ehlers for the 2018 #1OA.

Svechnikov has been called the highest-end Russian prospect since Ovechkin/Malkin. He just tore up the USHL at 16 with Gaudreau type numbers.

Sometimes prospects are just prospects, and sometimes they are in fact worth more than established young NHLers.

ANYWAYS - this is all subjective.


Hypothetical: you have one year to win the Stanley cup, you can add one player to your team- Hischier or Marner? That's a no brainer. Marner, currently, is the better player.


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Old 08-10-2017, 06:21 PM   #29
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Again, without getting into a long debate - Barkov is not a franchise center while Monahan is a 3rd tier star
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Old 08-11-2017, 10:29 AM   #30
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two more spots handed out ...

15. Aaron Ekblad
16. Aleksander Barkov
17. Dougie Hamilton
18. Seth Jones
19. Sean Monahan
20. Nikolaj Ehlers
21. William Nylander
22. Jacob Slavin
23. Brandon Saad
24. Jonathon Drouin
25. Max Domi
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Old 08-11-2017, 10:46 AM   #31
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Again, without getting into a long debate - Barkov is not a franchise center while Monahan is a 3rd tier star


versus



Franchise center versus 3rd tier star. You tell me who is who.
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Old 08-11-2017, 11:42 AM   #32
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2017 Eichel was a complete beast. A point per game player, finished the season with 36 points in 33 games. This was while playing with Reinhart (47 points in 79 games) and Foligno (23 points in 80 games).

I don't know the exact criteria for the top 25, but assuming that potential is taken into account than I would have no problem with Eichel being in the top 3.
Yep, while playing for our doofus coach that everyone hated.

I think he's going to have a big season.
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:45 PM   #33
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Yep, while playing for our doofus coach that everyone hated.

I think he's going to have a big season.
thanked for use of doofus
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:49 PM   #34
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Watching the Barkov highlights.. Jagr looks sick, the puck protection, some of those passes and a very active stick causing those turnovers.

Look how he creates space on the goal against Toronto, or protects the puck in the slot against LA or the one touch pass against SJ.

He looks good!
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:58 AM   #35
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Really, Matt Murray should be above most everyone. Two Stanley Cups already as the starting goalie and not the best under 25? Some of the guys suggested above him will never win one.
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:16 AM   #36
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Really, Matt Murray should be above most everyone. Two Stanley Cups already as the starting goalie and not the best under 25? Some of the guys suggested above him will never win one.
It's a team game. He happens to have Crosby and Malkin playing C in front of him.

Matt Murray is NOT the best player under 25. That is a ridiculous assertion.

In fact, if Murray were on any team other than the Penguins, he would not be mentioned by anyone as a candidate for the top 25. Easily the most over-rated player on the list.
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:34 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era View Post


versus



Franchise center versus 3rd tier star. You tell me who is who.
Franchise center - AC
3rd tier star - whoever made the panthers video

duh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
It's a team game. He happens to have Crosby and Malkin playing C in front of him.

Matt Murray is NOT the best player under 25. That is a ridiculous assertion.

In fact, if Murray were on any team other than the Penguins, he would not be mentioned by anyone as a candidate for the top 25. Easily the most over-rated player on the list.
That's disingenuous. Matt Murray holds the AHL record for shutout streak, which he set as a 20 year old. There was no Crosby or Malkin in front of him down there.
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:35 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
It's a team game. He happens to have Crosby and Malkin playing C in front of him.

Matt Murray is NOT the best player under 25. That is a ridiculous assertion.

In fact, if Murray were on any team other than the Penguins, he would not be mentioned by anyone as a candidate for the top 25. Easily the most over-rated player on the list.
Of course it's a team game. Doesn't make him less a part of the team. The Pens went a long time with Crosby and Malkin as well as other star players but not landing a cup. The Flower didn't get it done in the same way during the playoffs. Really, Murray's playoff stats are sick, and that's not a small sample size.

I get that it's hard to say a goalie could be more of a top player than McDavid, but an absolute rock in net who has proven it with awesome playoff stats (1.97GAA and .928 save percentage when playing mostly against conference and cup finalists) on the road to two cups at 23 years old... pretty tough to beat. Who else under 25 has proven themselves like that when it matters most?
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:06 PM   #39
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Just watching those Monahan highlights from last year again - the guy is such a hound for the puck in front of the net. His eye hand coordination is pretty amazing. I can see Mony having a breakout year this year. Thanks again AC!
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:18 PM   #40
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That's disingenuous. Matt Murray holds the AHL record for shutout streak, which he set as a 20 year old. There was no Crosby or Malkin in front of him down there.
AHL records don't put you in the top 25 under 25. Hardly anyone on the list even played in the AHL.

So no, that was not at all disingenuous.

I replied to a poster that said he should top the list. There isn't a rational hockey mind on the planet that would take him ahead of McDavid or Matthews. It was a laughable assertion.

And I stand by my assertion that Murray is the most over-rated on that list. In 3 to 5 years, this list of players will be dominant across the league. We'll see where Murray stacks up to the rest.
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